


<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div>



<p>In addition to the VS code previewer for WordPress plugins, the Hackathon team working with WordPress Playground is also <a href="https://twitter.com/adamzielin/status/1637457845141512194">experimenting</a> with using the block editor in the browser and working with the Terminal and PHP, wp-cli, and PHPUnit &#8211; all in the browser. </p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Our <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFHack2023?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFHack2023</a> Project 1: WordPress code editor, cli, and preview in the browser — with offline mode! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFHack?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFHack</a> <a href="https://t.co/KdFzwq9IaJ">https://t.co/KdFzwq9IaJ</a></p>&mdash; Adam Zieliński (@adamzielin) <a href="https://twitter.com/adamzielin/status/1637769196128858114?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2023</a></blockquote>
</div>



<p>The WapuuGotchi project, which aims to gamify WordPress with a customizable Wapuu, notifications, and rewards, has its own <a href="https://twitter.com/wapuugotchi">Twitter account</a> and <a href="https://wapuugotchi.com/">website</a> where those interested can follow along with their progress.</p>



<img />image credit: <a href="https://wapuugotchi.com/hackathon-wrap-up-unveiling-the-future-of-wordpress">WapuuGotchi Hackathon Wrap-Up</a>



<p>&#8220;The audience was captivated as we demonstrated the customizable Wapuu assistant, which can be tailored to suit individual preferences by selecting unique outfits and accessories,&#8221; WapuuGotchi design contributor Dennis Hipp said.</p>



<p>&#8220;We also highlighted WapuuGotchi’s backend interaction capabilities, showing how it can guide users through updates, provide helpful tips, and offer reminders for important tasks. The presentation concluded with an invitation for Plugin authors to collaborate with us and integrate their Plugins into the WapuuGotchi ecosystem.&#8221;</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f469-1f3fb-200d-1f4bb.png" alt="👩🏻‍💻" class="wp-smiley" /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/2728.png" alt="✨" class="wp-smiley" /> Day 3, the last day and the final sprint! Everyone in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WapuuGotchi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WapuuGotchi</a> team is working hand in hand to complete the final steps before the presentation.  We are looking forward to sharing our results with you! <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/2728.png" alt="✨" class="wp-smiley" /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f468-1f3fc-200d-1f4bb.png" alt="👨🏼‍💻" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFHack2023?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFHack2023</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/aprox7?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@aprox7</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/joomla?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Joomla</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/TinaTO?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TinaTO</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/mpmike?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@mpmike</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/cloudfest?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@cloudfest</a> <a href="https://t.co/9VZy1KSAKg">pic.twitter.com/9VZy1KSAKg</a></p>&mdash; WapuuGotchi (@wapuugotchi) <a href="https://twitter.com/wapuugotchi/status/1637748796938506240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2023</a></blockquote>
</div>



<p>The Wappspector project, which aims to create a CLI utility to analyze the file structure of a web hosting server and identify the frameworks and CMS used in the websites hosted on it, made significant progress during the Hackathon. The app added seven more CMS identifiers and will soon be ready for testing on control panels. The app focuses on CMS and e-commerce applications but will also have an extendable mechanism allowing hosting providers to customize it to suit their needs.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Seven more CMS identifiers added to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WappSpector?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WappSpector</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/cloudfest?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cloudfest</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFHACK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFHACK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFHACK2023?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFHACK2023</a> &#8211; in addition to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordPress</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Joomla?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Joomla</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Drupal?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Drupal</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Prestashop?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Prestashop</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TYPO3?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TYPO3</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Composer?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Composer</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Laravel?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Laravel</a> are now identifiable. Our app will soon be ready for testing on control panels. <a href="https://t.co/f26qLFiEqV">pic.twitter.com/f26qLFiEqV</a></p>&mdash; cPanel (@cPanel) <a href="https://twitter.com/cPanel/status/1637399014873202688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 19, 2023</a></blockquote>
</div>



<p>CloudFest 2023 added a new <a href="https://www.cloudfest.com/wordpress-day">WordPress Day</a>, dedicated to helping internet infrastructure professionals learn more about WordPress&#8217;s footprint and ecosystem, and hear from some of the top WordPress plugin developers and security experts. The event was held earlier today on March 20, and featured 12 sessions on WordPress.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 20 Mar 2023 18:59:44 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:105:"Gutenberg Times: OpenAI Block, WooCommerce 7.5, Patterns and Flexible Table Block —Weekend Edition #247";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=23605";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:110:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/openai-block-woocommerce-7-5-patterns-and-flexible-table-block-weekend-edition-247/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:17466:"<p>Howdy, </p>



<p>Containers are on my mind. In one of those, our household will be shipped next week. 🚚 We will be AirBnB-ing for a few weeks. Exciting times. </p>



<p>I need to sort through some paperwork and create the inventory for the insurance. Sorry for the short intro, today. </p>



<p>Wish me luck! </p>



<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>




<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container">
<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>



<div class="wp-block-sortabrilliant-guidepost"><ul><li><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ul></div>
</div></div>




<p><strong>Josepha Haden Chomphosy</strong> joined <strong>DocPop</strong> on the <em>Torque Social Hour</em>. They discussed WordPress 20-year Anniversary celebration, WordPress 6.2 &#8211; Phase 2 to Phase 3. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T0LgQP7M4A"><strong>Torque Social Hour: Preparing for WP20 Celebrations</strong></a>. In this episode, Haden Chomphosy  told us about the upcoming plans for WordPress’s 20th Anniversary. They also talked about WP version 6.2, the recent acquisition of the ActivityPub plugin for WordPress, and Plugin Madness 2023.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<p>It&#8217;s release candidate week in WordPress land: <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-2/"><strong>WordPress 6.2 RC 2</strong></a> was released on March 14, 2023, and <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/releases/tag/v15.4.0-rc.1"><strong>Gutenberg 15.4 RC 1</strong></a> is also available for testing. </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>WordPress 6.2 comes with a browse mode of the Site Editor. This includes a black left menu bar that blends in and out depending on if you are editing a template or browsing the menu. Until RC 2, &#8220;Navigation&#8221; was one of the menu items on the left admin menu, it was, however, pulled before this week&#8217;s RC 2. <strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> summarized the discussion around this issue in their post: <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/14/fyi-navigation-section-of-new-site-editor-experienced-removed-for-6-2-rc-2/"><strong>FYI: Navigation section of new Site Editor experienced removed for 6.2 RC 2</strong></a> and shared also the list of issues this feature has. Each one a minor item in the sum it wasn&#8217;t up to the quality contributors aimed for. </p>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container">
<p><strong>🎙️ </strong> New episode:  <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-80-wordpress-6-2-preview-gutenberg-15-2-and-15-3/">Gutenberg Changelog #80 – WordPress 6.2 Preview, Gutenberg 15.2 and 15.3</a> with Birgit Pauli-Haack and special guest Rich Tabor  </p>
</div></div>



<p>WPEngine&#8217;s one-day virtual developer conference DE{CODE} will take place next week <strong>March 21 through 23rd, 2023. DE{CODE} </strong>will be broadcast in three global time zones and anticipates over 5,000 attendees in its fourth year, launching in 2020. <strong>Matt Mullenweg</strong> and <strong>Matias Ventura</strong> will discuss the future of WordPress and the rapid innovations in the block editor relied upon by millions of WordPress developers worldwide. It&#8217;s also part of the 20-year anniversary celebration of WordPress . Have a look at the <a href="https://events.wpengine.com/event/b1c1e30f-2c73-4abb-a609-52afaed68717/websitePage:289e81f7-3e30-49de-9510-696ad303d192"><strong>schedule of all the great sessions at DE{CODE} 2023</strong></a></p>



<img />



<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> was a guest of <strong>Rob Cairns</strong> for the latest episode. They talk All about 6.2 on <a href="https://stunningdigitalmarketing.com/episode-307-wordpress-6-2-with-anne-mccarthy/">Stunning Digital Marketing</a> podcast. Highlights of the show: </p>



<ul>
<li>What is coming in WordPress 6.2 .</li>



<li>&nbsp;The coolest features in WordPress 6.2</li>



<li>&nbsp;When are we going to update the WordPress Admin Dashboard?</li>



<li>&nbsp;When are we going to fix the Media Library?</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p><strong>Jamie Marsland</strong>, shows off the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERIz3diT9Sk"><strong>Side Editor and Block Themes</strong></a> again via YouTube. He uses both to rebuild Austin Kleon&#8217;s website, using the newest WordPress version.  <br /><em>Austin Kleon is the New York Times bestselling author of a trilogy of illustrated books about creativity in the digital age: Steal Like An Artist, Show Your Work!, and Keep Going.</em></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong><a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/2023/03/14/woocommerce-7-5-released/">WooCommerce 7.5</a></strong> has been released, and the post highlights that Woo Blocks are ready for the new feature of the StyleBook coming in WordPress 6.2, Blocks have been rewritten, so users can use the core design tools for changing the look and feel, the block can be easier styled by block themes, and new blocks to manage the store can now be found in the inserter of the block editor. </p>



<p><strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> of WPTavern has more details: <a href="https://wptavern.com/woocommerce-7-5-0-introduces-3-new-blocks-expands-support-for-global-styles"><strong>WooCommerce 7.5.0 Introduces 3 New Blocks, Expands Support for Global Styles</strong></a></p>



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<p>Learn.WordPress Tutorial: <a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/displaying-testimonials-on-your-website/"><strong>Displaying testimonials on your website</strong></a> with<strong> Wes Theron</strong>. This tutorial will look at adding a testimonial pattern and installing a new block from the Block Directory to your site.</p>



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<p><strong><a href="https://twitter.com/tetsuaki_hamano">Aki Hamano</a></strong>, a Gutenberg contributor from Japan, released a new version of his <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/flexible-table-block/"><strong>Flexible Table Block plugin</strong></a>, with the main changes </p>



<ul>
<li>Tested on WordPress6.2</li>



<li>Redesigned global settings modal </li>



<li>apply stripe color to tbody only </li>



<li>Preserve rowspan/colspan when converting to/from core table blocks </li>
</ul>



<p></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>



<p><strong>Mike McAliste</strong>r acclaims: <a href="https://olliewp.com/patterns-are-gonna-be-a-game-changer-for-wordpress/"><strong>Patterns are gonna be a game changer for WordPress</strong></a>, and he tells you why, after a recap of the genesis of Block Patterns:  &#8221;&nbsp;instead of designing a page from scratch, WordPress creators can now lean on patterns to quickly prototype or design their full website in the new WordPress Site Editor with little or no code involved.&#8221; McAlister also has concrete vision on how patterns could be a bit more intelligent: </p>



<ul>
<li>Go global: change once, update to all places where patterns were added.</li>



<li>Pattern locking features</li>



<li>Light/dark version of the same pattern.</li>
</ul>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>If that topic interests you more, <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> wrote a post on the Developer Blog, introducing <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2022/11/creating-themes-from-a-pattern-first-mindset/"><strong>Creating Themes from a Pattern-first mindset</strong></a></p>



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<p><strong>Ganesh Dahal</strong>&nbsp;wrote on CSS Tricks on <a href="https://css-tricks.com/managing-fonts-in-wordpress-block-themes/"><strong>Managing Fonts in WordPress Block Themes</strong></a>. &#8220;Block themes can indeed use Google Fonts, but the process for registering them is way different from what you might have done before in classic themes.&#8221; he explained. </p>



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<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2022&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2021 on. Updated by yours truly.  <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/"><em>The index 2020 is here</em></a></p>




<p>On the WordPress Developer Blog, <strong>Daisy Olse</strong>n takes you along when she shows you  <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/block-theme-templates-the-easy-way-to-build-an-elegant-grid-of-posts/"><strong>Block theme templates: the easy way to build an elegant grid of posts</strong></a>. <em>&#8220;WordPress block themes let you lay out your home page in countless ways, with endless flexibility. To get you started and show you just a few of the possibilities, this tutorial will help you build a magazine-style home page that shows several recent posts and then a traditional post list for inner pages.</em>&#8220;Olsen summarized. Olsen also live-streams regularly <a href="httpa://twitch.com/daisyonwp">on Twitch</a>: Next event: Friday, March 31, 2023 7:30 AM to 9:00 AM Topic: <a href="http://clicks.meetup.com/ls/click?upn=XbaZ37larFA-2FuV5MohrYpdrra25MtI4CzodbRR1Rd1lcKVfFkaiAkMoxUvY-2FRvTYasrl05OpUEx72RVyvunbnfpl8aYBoogyprZFTIpUpo22NL-2FoQHUOrtYIfxI6PjJVQFCmp-2B2S-2Fq4FTLYKBM-2BmtFcLYWugMTX9zP0bhY6zZ3DLzmpF0KtJjZgT2sqIJWMLmpmnqQgZd0lq2xEArTmYCpw3GjujFvusA8j5HeNyemAoWMY12BDWC9aKbhEdL43wbmWxsdhlCn-2BVgCcoZjW3jRMKI9i3RSODpkr-2BEywOkyA-3DTYl__J40Cm482JAfcu64pauD5epBU-2Bh0Rd-2FPWHzdxWXz1rewkAa1qNT6zJlNeHNYZFAj0LnD-2Bb1AhQQSz4XVimu5ikL4v4OY5PmVLKfMIPDvE6BMosM9bkdqfAXKOIvxARLwcEaswvLfrjbcOYXZ6C3kRPGZOIfCYy917Fg5QeBskFMUyf3q4tnOMOPPjOqOaBMCUzD1FgXVOIMNE3e3r-2BhQukqfMyS-2FyScFE4d0bJew1heuXhcM4totKIVcUclpyh59sJALeLnEd7rm1-2Fqjh48JlQHN5Mu3Av-2FsH9ygknQvsc5x0A0KIrnZTxG3h2GrtpO7CVUdQl4Bc6wM2zHjt9-2B787S0FNwx7tr-2BI0gnbVhh3msWhB3gwO8L9YvSr-2BK297Bd2xRLzyP5phQS6MLNc8DjP1QvXnZNFPgnkJBi01ij4rj1YPcsSY-2Fo0gaDXyr-2FQVIUGP-2FQRg-2BDysOhbjHIF9IWpTizgKY1H8lY112ok0qu4wmRXXbjeFAqRqDstHdKbn1To22RrqAWiHnuz8gFPcdlUc2AGP-2BiO7jlJY-2BMMFkuaCYYcqV97OLC4u05JDD2KYzbB3loEraPvrnPo83nKJ4w-2B4GQleteGxeO-2BNZkBi5jVzF93Gz-2FQ41-2FqSCjNgHh46QPbQonA1BfYS3KYXiaPoCQTtqTjxDRRvuZOgrx6MeiNm0WMa-2BvS3qV0FFYDI54etDZF01xqafJyfVV0kXDBt7dNp0zsnZNMsTYIVXwErz8HEozy6mQquv99qo2jE-2FsMC7WE" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Block Themes and WordPress: Exploring WordPress 6.2</a></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>



<p>In his latest recording, <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> wrapped up <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88c6z1XEvG0"><strong>building an OpenAI block for WordPress</strong></a>. In a previous edition, Welcher built an OpenAI integrated block that can generate images for use in our content. In this show, he turned it into a plugin that is part of the editor interface and inserted image blocks automatically after uploading the selected image. </p>



<p>If you missed the earlier parts of this series, they are also available on YouTube</p>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQS69SglWOg">Integrating OpenAI with a custom block. Part One</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIJwXEXt7xE">Integrating OpenAI with a custom block. Part Two</a></li>
</ul>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Using the WordPress REST API is how block editor development interacts with data. <strong>Jonathan Bossenger</strong> created a series of Workshops on how to use the API.</p>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2023/01/13/lets-code-using-the-wordpress-rest-api/"><strong>Using the WP REST API</strong></a>: Learn how to use the WP REST API to interact with existing WordPress data.</li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2023/01/20/lets-code-interacting-with-the-wp-rest-api/"><strong>Interacting with the WP REST API</strong></a>: Learn how to interact add and delete data. The tutorial also looks at a useful developer tool for testing endpoints.</li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2023/01/27/lets-code-wp-rest-api-updates-custom-fields-and-authentication/"><strong>WP REST API updates, custom fields, and authentication</strong></a>: Learn how to use the REST API and Backbone.js to make update requests, add/update custom fields, and authenticate requests when logged out.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2023/02/03/lets-code-wp-rest-api-modifying-responses/">WP REST API – modifying responses</a>:</strong> Learn one of the ways to extend the REST API by modifying responses.</li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2023/02/10/lets-code-wp-rest-api-custom-routes-and-endpoints/">WP REST API – custom routes and endpoints</a>: Learn how to create custom routes and endpoints and test them with Postman.</li>
</ul>



<p>I also highly recommend watching <strong>K. Adam White</strong>&#8216;s talk at WordCamp Asia on&nbsp;<a href="https://asia.wordcamp.org/2023/session/getting-the-most-out-of-the-rest-api/"><strong>Getting the most out of the REST API</strong></a>. During the talk, White renamed it to&nbsp;<em>“Getting the most out of WordPress when you’re writing Block Editor code”.</em> (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/live/vrDwB7iuHL8?t=2299">Recording</a>)&nbsp;(<a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1PQVcTzcUP2xRbwjEjqo8VENxU7fiDBtz8U7R4cA0-IE/edit#slide=id.g1f27001dabd_0_8"><strong>Slidedeck</strong></a>)</p>



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<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. <br />Have you been using it? Hit reply and let me know.</p>



<p><img alt="GitHub all releases" src="https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge" /></p>




<p class="has-text-align-right has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>. </p>



<p class="has-text-align-right has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



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<p>Featured Image: &#8220;Container&#8221; by Izabela Reimers is licensed under CC BY-NC-SA 2.0.</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-left"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>



<form class="wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait" action="https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/" method="post"><div class="ngl-form-container"><div class="ngl-form-field"><label class="ngl-form-label" for="ngl_email"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class="ngl-form-input"><input type="email" class="ngl-form-input-text" name="ngl_email" id="ngl_email" /></div></div><button type="submit" class="ngl-form-button">Subscribe</button><p class="ngl-form-text">We hate spam, too and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class="ngl-message-overlay"><div class="ngl-message-svg-wrap"></div><div class="ngl-message-overlay-text">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type="hidden" name="ngl_list_id" id="ngl_list_id" value="26f81bd8ae" /><input type="hidden" name="ngl_double_optin" id="ngl_double_optin" value="yes" /></form>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide" />";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 18 Mar 2023 05:33:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:91:"WPTavern: WordPress Launches Wapuu Coloring Giveaway to Celebrate Upcoming 20th Anniversary";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142834";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-launches-wapuu-coloring-giveaway-to-celebrate-upcoming-20th-anniversary";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2364:"<p>Wapuu lovers who are looking for a relaxing weekend activity will want to check out WordPress&#8217; recently launched <a href="https://wp20.wordpress.net/wapuu-coloring-giveaway-style-your-own-party-wapuu/">Wapuu Coloring Giveaway</a>. The challenge is to style your own 20th anniversary party Wapuu using crayons, markers, colored pencils, pastels, or even digital drawing tools.</p>



<p>Three random entries will be selected (which is why it&#8217;s called a giveaway and not a contest) to receive limited edition swag:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>You have a chance to win one of three WP20 Swag Kits, complete with a variety of unique anniversary goods. From lapel pins to stickers, and some surprise mystery items, they’ll be a memorable collection for this milestone moment in WordPress history. </p>
</blockquote>



<p>Participants will need to download the Wapuu coloring set, which comes in different file types (.pdf, .png, .svg, and .ai). Finished wapuu coloring creations can be shared on Twitter using the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WapuuWP20">#WapuuWP20</a> hashtag to enter the giveaway. So far there are just a handful of party wapuus that have been submitted via Twitter, but email is another option if you want to send it privately or don&#8217;t have a Twitter account.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Long way from the Himalayan kingdom Bhutan, the land of gross national happiness with a population of 700,000 plus, would like to congratulate WordPress Communities worldwide in advance for our upcoming huge celebration on making it to the 20TH WordPress Anniversary. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WapuuWP20?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WapuuWP20</a> <a href="https://t.co/Ml1Wz7m8nx">pic.twitter.com/Ml1Wz7m8nx</a></p>&mdash; Ugyen Dorji Organizing #WCAsia (@ugyendzodorji) <a href="https://twitter.com/ugyendzodorji/status/1636280709890576385?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 16, 2023</a></blockquote>
</div>



<p>Entrants must be 18 years old to win, but the coloring page is fun for kids even if they won&#8217;t have the chance to win swag. WordPress will celebrate its 20th anniversary on May 27, but the deadline to submit wapuu creations is April 17, 2023, at 03:59 UTC. Winners will be contacted via Twitter or email.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 17 Mar 2023 21:54:51 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:39:"WordCamp Central: WordCamp Buffalo 2023";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:39:"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=3163106";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:64:"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2023/03/wordcamp-buffalo-2023/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1802:"<a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/empireoflight/"><img /></a>WordCamp Buffalo 2023 logo. Design by Ben Dunkle.



<p>Buffalo again will host the region’s WordCamp for bloggers and web designers and developers of all skill levels. Novices are very welcome. WordCamp Buffalo will be held Saturday, May 6, 2023.</p>



<p>Registration opens at 8:00am. Sessions begin at 9 a.m. and continue through 5 p.m. This year’s WordCamp will be held at Ken-Ton Elmwood Commons, 3200 Elmwood Ave Suite 110, Kenmore, NY 14217. Tickets are required in advance.</p>



<p>The $25 ticket cost covers WordCamp Buffalo swag, morning coffee, lunch, and the evenings’s after-party food. Participants are strongly encouraged to bring their laptops or tablets. Ticket purchase and program details are available at <a href="https://buffalo.wordcamp.org/2023">buffalo.wordcamp.org/2023</a>. The capacity for this event is about 120 people, so getting tickets early is advised.</p>



<p>WordCamps are held worldwide, locally run and purposely at a low cost for accessibility to all. WordCamp Buffalo is dedicated to WordPress, blogging and web facility. WordCamps are sponsored by WordPress, the open-source, free, not-for-profit platform for individuals, groups and businesses to build their own blogs and websites. WordPress.org began in 2003. Its administrators call it the “largest self-hosted blogging tool in the world, used on millions of sites and seen by tens of millions of people every day.”</p>



<p>Similar to previous years, Buffalo’s 2023 WordCamp will divide its workshops along two tracks, with sessions for every ability and level of use.</p>



<p>Speakers will include WordPress users from Buffalo, Rochester, and beyond, with experience ranging from user/blogger to advanced developer.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 17 Mar 2023 14:30:13 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Michelle Frechette";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:57:"WordCamp Central: WordCamp Entebbe 2023: An Amazing Recap";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:39:"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=3163170";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:81:"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2023/03/wordcamp-entebbe-2023-an-amazing-recap/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4374:"<p>WordCamp Entebbe, a two-day event that took place on the 10th and 11th of March, 2023, was a resounding success and was attended by over 200 people. The event, which was focused on the WordPress content management system, drew attendees from across Uganda and beyond. However, what made this event stand out was its commitment to gender diversity in the tech industry.</p>



<p>The organizers of WordCamp Entebbe made a concerted effort to ensure that women were well-represented at the event. The gender diversity program featured female speakers and student attendees. This program was designed to inspire more women to pursue careers in technology, and it proved to be a huge success.</p>



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image2-1024x683.jpg" alt="A person stands on a stage with a microphone." />



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image4-1024x683.jpg" alt="The group poses for a photo." width="670" height="446" />Students pose for a group photo with the lead organiser Arthur Kasirye 



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image6-1024x683.jpg" alt="The group poses for a photo." />Students arriving at the WordCamp



<p>Over the course of the two-day event, attendees had the opportunity to attend a wide range of sessions, workshops, and presentations. Many of these were led by female speakers who shared their experiences and expertise with the audience.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The topics covered ranged from beginner-level introductions to WordPress to more advanced topics such as website optimization, content creation, and web security.</p>



<p>One of the most inspiring sessions of the event was a panel discussion on women in tech. This session featured female leaders in the Ugandan tech industry who shared their experiences and insights with the audience. The panelists talked about the challenges they had faced as women in a male-dominated industry and offered advice on how to overcome those challenges.</p>



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image7-1024x684.jpg" alt="A group is sitting in chairs." />Women Panel at the Wordcamp



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image5-1024x880.jpg" alt="The group poses for a photo." />



<p>Another highlight of WordCamp Entebbe was the student program. This program provided an opportunity for students to attend the event and learn more about WordPress and the tech industry in general. The students were able to attend workshops and presentations, network with professionals in the industry, and gain valuable insights into the world of tech as well as introduced to the new study curriculum of the Directorate of Industrial Training (DIT) a Ugandan quality assurance directorate offering nationally, regionally and internationally recognized quality assurance services for the Business, Technical, Vocational Education and Training (BTVET) were students can use WordPress in their final year projects and graded on a national level.</p>



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image3-1024x683.jpg" alt="A group is observing a laptop." />Students learning to install WordPress website



<p>This year’s WordCamp was led by Kasirye Arthur the leader of the&nbsp;<a href="https://www.meetup.com/entebbe-wordpress-meetup/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">WordPress Community in Entebbe</a>&nbsp;who is also a community lead for&nbsp;<a href="https://www.meetup.com/kampala-woocommerce-meetup-group/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Woocommerce</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href="https://www.meetup.com/elementor-uganda-meetup-group/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Elementor</a></p>



<p>Overall, WordCamp Entebbe was a hugely successful event that demonstrated the power of gender diversity in the tech industry.&nbsp;</p>



<p>By creating a program that was focused on empowering women in Tech, the organizers of this event helped to inspire a new generation of female technologists. It is our hope that more events like WordCamp Entebbe will be organized even in schools so that we can continue to build a more diverse and inclusive tech industry.&nbsp;</p>



<img src="https://masterwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/image8-1024x684.jpg" alt="The group poses for a photo." width="670" height="447" />WordCamp Entebbe organising Team";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 17 Mar 2023 09:30:42 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Kasirye Arthur";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:105:"WPTavern: Equalize Digital Raises Pre-Seed Funding for Expanding Accessibility Checker Plugin Development";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142818";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:116:"https://wptavern.com/equalize-digital-raises-pre-seed-funding-for-expanding-accessibility-checker-plugin-development";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:3689:"<p>Equalize Digital, a WordPress accessibility products and consulting company, has <a href="https://equalizedigital.com/equalize-digital-receives-investment-emilia-capital/">received an undisclosed amount of pre-seed funding</a> from Emilia Capital, the investment company owned by Joost de Valk and Marieke van de Rakt. The investment will be used to accelerate the growth of Equalize Digital&#8217;s <a href="https://equalizedigital.com/accessibility-checker/">Accessibility Checker plugin</a>, a tool for auditing websites for WCAG, ADA, and Section 508 accessibility errors.</p>



<p>Emilia Capital now owns part of the company, although its owners were not given seats on the board. Equalize Digital founder and CEO Amber Hinds said they will be serving as advisors and playing a role in strategic planning, especially around marketing and plugin development.</p>



<p>The Accessibility Checker plugin currently has approximately 2,000 active installs, according to <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/accessibility-checker/">WordPress.org stats</a>, and the commercial upgrades make up a small percentage of Equalize Digital&#8217;s current revenue.</p>



<p>&#8220;We built the initial MVP in 2020 with an SBA loan and since then the plugin has been bootstrapped by profits from the service side of our business,&#8221; Hinds said. &#8220;My partner Steve and I have been splitting our time between client work and working on the plugin.</p>



<p>&#8220;We decided to bring on an investor because our ultimate goal is for the product to make up a significant portion of our revenue. It&#8217;s challenging to rapidly grow a product that isn&#8217;t yet self-sustaining, hence seeking investors. The funds will allow us to have full-time team members building new features, and also further invest in marketing, education, and sales than was possible while we were bootstrapping.&#8221;</p>



<p>Hinds said the features her team is targeting are aimed at making the plugin a more competitive accessibility auditing tool when compared with other existing SaaS solutions. </p>



<p>&#8220;Our focus right now is making our reports easier to understand by less technical users,&#8221; Hinds said. &#8220;The next major release with be a feature that allows people to click a button and highlight elements on the front end of the website, which will make it easier to find the element flagging the issue without having to interpret a code snippet.</p>



<p>&#8220;Other features that we have on the road map include scanning and reporting on archive pages for posts and taxonomies, improved scanning of non-English sites, and the ability for accessibility testers to log issues found during manual accessibility audits.&#8221;</p>



<p>Hinds said she was encouraged by the findings in the recent <a href="https://theadminbar.com/2023-survey/">Admin Bar survey of WordPress professionals</a>, which showed that 76.9% report they are striving for best practices when it comes to website accessibility, a significant increase from the previous year. With the new investment, Equalize Digital will be able to do more marketing to increase awareness and adoption of its tools.</p>



<p>&#8220;Ultimately I would like to see accessibility being considered during website builds in the same way that SEO is, and we&#8217;re hoping that our plugin will central to that,&#8221; Hinds said. &#8220;It&#8217;s why the free version of our plugin is much more full-featured than similar plugins. Other accessibility tools are prohibitively expensive for small businesses and bloggers. We&#8217;re aiming to build a tool that makes accessibility testing available to everyone.&#8221;</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 17 Mar 2023 03:33:33 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"WPTavern: Local 6.7.0 Adds Long-Requested Site Grouping Feature";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142784";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:74:"https://wptavern.com/local-6-7-0-adds-long-requested-site-grouping-feature";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2533:"<p>WP Engine&#8217;s <a href="https://localwp.com/">Local</a> development app has released <a href="https://localwp.com/releases/6.7.0/">version 6.7.0</a> with Site Grouping, a highly requested feature that will greatly improve users&#8217; workflows. It allows users to create custom groups in the sidebar of the Local dashboard page for better organization of their sites.</p>



<p>Local users have been <a href="https://community.localwp.com/t/group-sites-in-folder-in-sidebar/454/25">asking for this feature</a> since 2017, as many are managing dozens of WordPress sites. In June 2022, the Local development team began designing and then building the feature a couple months later, incorporating feedback from user interviews and usability testing.</p>



<p> In the new Site Grouping feature, sites can be easily dragged between groups and groups can be reordered up or down, as illustrated in the release notes.</p>



<img /><a href="https://localwp.com/releases/6.7.0/">Local 6.7.0 release notes</a>



<p>Another handy feature released with Site Grouping is the ability to start, stop, restart, or delete all the sites in a group from the context menu (the three dots to the right of the group name). Sites can also be sorted by how recently they were used via the clock icon at the top of the groups sidebar. </p>



<p>To get users started, all their Starred sites have been placed in a new Starred group at the top of the sidebar. Full <a href="https://localwp.com/help-docs/local-features/site-grouping-feature/">documentation for using the new Site Grouping feature</a> is available in Local&#8217;s help resources.</p>



<p><a href="https://deliciousbrains.com/wp-migrate-db-pro/">WP Migrate</a>, formerly known as WP Migrate DB and recently <a href="https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-acquires-5-plugins-from-delicious-brains">acquired by WP Engine</a>, introduced <a href="https://wptavern.com/wp-migrate-2-6-introduces-full-site-exports-and-import-to-local">full-site exports and imports to Local</a> in January 2023. Local version 6.7.0 improves imports from WP Migrate so that they auto-select the PHP, web server, and database version closest to the production environment if Local offers the same major/minor version.</p>



<p>This release also includes several bug fixes with Local importing or pulling to an existing site, where the site&#8217;s existing settings or environment were not applied. If you experienced this bug, make sure to update to the latest 6.7.0 release before attempting more imports.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:27:52 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:87:"Post Status: WordPress 6.2 RC2 • Plugin Review Team Retirement News • WP20 Giveaway";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=148272";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:41:"https://poststatus.com/wordpress-6-2-rc2/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:22040:"<h2 id="h-this-week-at-wordpress-org-march-13-2023">This Week at WordPress.org (March 13, 2023)</h2>


<div class="has-background has-theme-palette-8-background-color wp-block-post-excerpt"><p class="wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt">Discover WordPress 6.2&#8217;s new features, accessibility enhancements, and developer updates. Contribute to the community by joining the Contributor Working Group. Explore new block theme template. Engage in discussions on mentorship programs. Celebrate WP20 and participate in the Wapuu Coloring Giveaway. </p></div>


<div class="wp-block-spacer"></div>



<div class="wp-block-kadence-infobox kt-info-box_94d1bd-77"><div class="kt-blocks-info-box-link-wrap kt-blocks-info-box-media-align-left kt-info-halign-left"><div class="kt-blocks-info-box-media-container"><div class="kt-blocks-info-box-media kt-info-media-animate-none"><div class="kadence-info-box-icon-container kt-info-icon-animate-none"><div class="kadence-info-box-icon-inner-container"><span class="kb-svg-icon-wrap kb-svg-icon-fas_hand-holding-heart kt-info-svg-icon"></span></div></div></div></div><div class="kt-infobox-textcontent"><h2 class="kt-blocks-info-box-title">WP 6.2 RC2 • Plugin Review Team Announces Mika&#8217;s Retirement • WP20 Giveaway</h2><p class="kt-blocks-info-box-text"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f9ea.png" alt="🧪" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-2/">WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 2</a><br /><br /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4fa.png" alt="📺" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/">Your WordPress 6.2 Preview</a><br /><br /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64b-1f3fe.png" alt="🙋🏾" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/">Help Test WordPress 6.2</a><br /><br /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f5fa.png" alt="🗺" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/">WordPress 6.2 Field Guide</a><br /><br /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f44b-1f3fb.png" alt="👋🏻" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/10/advance-notice-of-retirement/">Advance Notice of Mika&#8217;s Plugin Review Retirement</a></p></div></div></div>



<div class="wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_b57166-6e"><div class="kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center"><hr class="kt-divider" /></div></div>



<h2 id="h-news"><a href="https://wordpress.org/news">News</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-2/">WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/episode-51-is-routine-a-rut/">WP Briefing: Episode 51: Is Routine a Rut?</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/">Your WordPress 6.2 Preview</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wp20.wordpress.net/wapuu-coloring-giveaway-style-your-own-party-wapuu/">Wapuu Coloring Giveaway: Style Your Own Party Wapuu</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wp20.wordpress.net/celebrate-with-wordpress/">WP20 Celebrations – Join in the Party – Online &amp; In-Person</a></li>
</ul>



<div class="wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_8f6276-eb"><div class="kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center"><hr class="kt-divider" /></div></div>



<div class="is-layout-flex wp-container-19 wp-block-columns">
<div class="is-layout-flow wp-block-column">
<h2 id="h-accessibility"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility">Accessibility</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility/2023/03/13/accessibility-team-meeting-agenda-march-17-2023/">Accessibility Team Meeting Agenda: March 17, 2023</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-community"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community">Community</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/03/13/combining-roles-to-create-a-new-contributor-ladder/">Combining Roles to Create a New Contributor Ladder</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/03/13/proposal-updates-to-the-mentor-program/">Proposal: Updates to the Mentor Program</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/03/10/launching-the-contributor-working-group-call-for-volunteers/">Launching the Contributor Working Group: Call for Volunteers</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/03/08/recap-of-the-diverse-speaker-training-group-wpdiversity-amer-emea-on-march-8-2023/">Recap of the Diverse Speaker Training group (#WPDiversity) AMER/EMEA on March 8, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/03/08/announcing-new-handbook-pages-on/">Running Funds Outside of WPCS</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-core"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core">Core</a> </h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/13/a-week-in-core-march-13-2023/">A Week in Core – March 13, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/13/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-3-13-march/">What’s new in Gutenberg 15.3? (13 March)</a> </li>
</ul>



<h3 id="h-wordpress-6-2">WordPress 6.2</h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/14/fyi-navigation-section-of-new-site-editor-experienced-removed-for-6-2-rc-2/">FYI: Navigation section of new Site Editor experienced removed for 6.2 RC 2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/">WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 1</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/14/wordpress-6-2-translation-status-march-14-2023/">WordPress 6.2 Translation Status (March 14, 2023)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/04/wordpress-6-2-ready-to-be-translated/">WordPress 6.2 ready to be translated</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/">WordPress 6.2 Field Guide</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/08/requests-library-upgraded-to-2-0-5-in-wordpress-6-2/">Requests library upgraded to 2.0.5 in WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/patterns-api-expanded-to-include-template_types-property/">Patterns API expanded to include template_types property</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introduction-of-block-inspector-tabs/">Introduction of Block Inspector Tabs</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/shadows-in-global-styles-with-wordpress-6-2/">Shadows in Global Styles with WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introducing-the-html-api-in-wordpress-6-2/">Introducing the HTML API in WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/miscellaneous-editor-changes-in-wordpress-6-2/">Miscellaneous Editor changes in WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introducing-move_dir-in-wordpress-6-2/">Introducing move_dir() in WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/sticky-position-block-support/">Sticky position block support</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/upgrading-to-react-18-and-common-pitfalls-of-concurrent-mode/">Upgrading to React 18 and common pitfalls of concurrent mode</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/add-new-prop-to-serversiderender-component/">Add new prop to ServerSideRender component</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/google-fonts-are-included-locally-in-bundled-themes/">Google Fonts are included locally in bundled themes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/custom-css-for-global-styles-and-per-block/">Custom CSS for global styles and per block</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/minimum-height-dimensions-block-support/">Minimum height dimensions block support</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/editor-components-updates-in-wordpress-6-2/">Editor Components updates in WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/i18n-improvements-in-6-2/">I18N Improvements in 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/28/custom-settings-wordpress-6-2/">Customize settings for any block in WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/19/style-book-preview-of-blocks-in-global-styles/">Style Book preview of blocks in global styles</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/update-to-content-only-editing-filter-namespace/">Update to content only editing filter namespace</a></li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/02/wordpress-6-2-accessibility-improvements/">WordPress 6.2 Accessibility Improvements</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/28/wordpress-6-2-beta-4-postponed/">WordPress 6.2 Beta 4 Postponed</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/21/wordpress-6-2-beta-3/">WordPress 6.2 Beta 3</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/21/6-2-live-product-demo/">6.2 Live Product Demo</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/04/phase-2-finale/">Phase 2, Finale</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/03/hallway-hangout-performance-improvements-for-wordpress-6-2/">Hallway Hangout: Performance Improvements for WordPress 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/06/roadmap-to-6-2/">Roadmap to 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/18/bug-scrub-schedule-for-6-2/">Bug Scrub Schedule for 6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/11/early-bug-scrub-schedule-for-wp-6-2/">Early bug scrub schedule for WP&nbsp;6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/17/wordpress-6-2-planning-roundup/">WordPress 6.2 Planning Roundup</a></li>
</ul>



<h3 id="h-meetings">Meetings</h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/14/dev-chat-agenda-wednesday-march-15-2023/">Dev Chat Agenda, Wednesday March 15, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/14/editor-chat-agenda-march-15-2023/">Editor Chat Agenda: March 15, 2023</a></li>
</ul>



<h3 id="h-developer-blog">Developer Blog</h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/block-theme-templates-the-easy-way-to-build-an-elegant-grid-of-posts/">Block theme templates: the easy way to build an elegant grid of posts</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/whats-new-for-developers-march-2023/">What’s new for developers? (March 2023)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/block-deprecation-a-tutorial/">Block deprecation – a tutorial</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-design"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design">Design</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2023/03/13/design-share-feb-13-mar-10/">Design Share: Feb 13–Mar 10</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-do-action"><a href="https://doaction.org/">do_action</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://doaction.org/event/ruralhackers/">Rural Hackers Do_Action 2023 in Anceu Spain</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-docs"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/docs">Docs</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/03/16/agenda-for-docs-team-bi-weekly-meeting-march-21-2023/">Agenda for Docs Team bi-weekly meeting March 21, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/03/16/summary-for-docs-team-meeting-march-7-2023/">Summary for Docs Team meeting, March 7, 2023</a></li>
</ul>
</div>



<div class="is-layout-flow wp-block-column">
<h2 id="h-hosting"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/hosting">Hosting</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/hosting/2023/03/14/hosting-team-meeting-agenda-2023-03-15/">Hosting Team meeting agenda 2023-03-15</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-marketing"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/marketing">Marketing</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/03/14/notes-global-marketing-team-meeting-5-march-2023/">Notes: Global Marketing Team meeting, 5 March 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/03/13/notes-global-marketing-team-meeting-28-february-2023/">Notes: Global Marketing Team meeting, 28 February 2023</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-openverse"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/openverse">Openverse</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/03/15/community-meeting-recap-14-march-2023/">Community Meeting Recap (14 March 2023)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/03/14/last-week-openverse-2023-03-06-2023-03-13/">A week in Openverse: 2023-03-06 – 2023-03-13</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-performance"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/performance/">Performance</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/14/performance-chat-summary-14-march-2023/">Performance Chat Summary: 14 March 2023</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-plugins"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins">Plugins</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/10/advance-notice-of-retirement/">Advance Notice of Retirement</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-polyglots"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots">Polyglots</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/15/polyglots-monthly-newsletter-march-2023/">Polyglots Monthly Newsletter: March 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/14/wordpress-6-2-translation-status-march-14-2023/">WordPress 6.2 Translation Status (March 14, 2023)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/14/agenda-weekly-polyglots-chat-march-15-2023-1300-utc/">Agenda: Weekly Polyglots Chat – March 15, 2023 (13:00 UTC)</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-plugins-1"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins">Plugins</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/03/10/advance-notice-of-retirement/">Advance Notice of Retirement</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-project">Project</h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/02/06/proposal-creating-a-wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program/">Proposal: Creating a WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/01/27/discussion-ending-the-eternal-september/">Discussion: Ending the Eternal September</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-support"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/support">Support</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/03/agenda-for-march-16th-support-meeting-2/">Agenda for March 16th Support Meeting</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/03/summary-for-march-9th-support-meeting/">Summary for March 9th Support Meeting</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/03/support-ticket-triage-session-march-22th-2023-at-1600-utc/">Support ticket triage session – March 22th 2023 at 16:00 UTC</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-test"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test">Test</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/03/14/hallway-hangout-lets-chat-about-all-things-layout/">Hallway Hangout: Let’s chat about All Things Layout</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/03/14/test-chat-summary-14-march-2023/">Test Chat Summary: 14 March 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/">Help Test WordPress 6.2</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-theme">Theme</h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/15/themes-team-meeting-notes-march-14-2023/">Themes Team Meeting Notes –&nbsp;March 14, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/03/hallway-hangout-community-themes-initiative/">Hallway Hangout: Community Themes Initiative</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-training"><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training">Training</a></h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/13/meeting-agenda-for-march-14-2023/">Meeting Agenda for March 14, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/10/dev-squad-update-triage-sessions-planning/">Dev-squad update: Triage sessions planning</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/10/training-team-meeting-recap-for-march-7-2023/">Training Team Meeting Recap for March 7, 2023</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/08/introduction-to-wordpress-development-a-proposed-learning-path/">Introduction to WordPress&nbsp;Development: A proposed learning path</a></li>
</ul>



<h3 id="h-online-workshops">Online Workshops</h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=lets-code-developing-user-roles-and-capabilities">Let’s code: developing user roles and capabilities</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=wp-dev-livestream-developing-wordpress-user-roles-and-capabilities-2">WP dev livestream: Developing WordPress user roles and capabilities</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=updating-a-blogs-design-informal-live-stream-part-3">Updating a blog’s design (Informal live stream) – Part 3</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A8%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%83%96%E3%83%AD%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A8%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AB">クラシックエディターからブロックエディターに移行するノウハウ</a></li>
</ul>



<h3 id="h-lesson-plans">Lesson Plans</h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson-plan/pagine-vs-articoli/">Pagine vs. articoli</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson-plan/cosa-fare-quando-non-ti-ricordi-la-password/">Cosa fare quando non ti ricordi la password</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson-plan/ta-dashboard-overview/">டாஷ்போர்டு மேலோட்டம்</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-wptv">WPTV</h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/category/year/2022/">Latest WordPress TV videos</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<h2 id="h-related-news">Related News:</h2>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-02-14-2">PHP 8.2.3 Released!</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-02-14-3">PHP 8.1.16 Released!</a></li>



<li><a href="https://262.ecma-international.org/13.0/">TC39</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/composer/composer/releases/tag/2.5.4">Composer 2.5.4</a></li>
</ul>



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<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 16 Mar 2023 17:01:19 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Courtney Robertson";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:80:"Post Status: Post Status Live – The Right Approach to WordPress Accessibility";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=148252";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:86:"https://poststatus.com/post-status-live-the-right-approach-to-wordpress-accessibility/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:105788:"<div class="is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container"><div class="wp-block-post-excerpt"><p class="wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt">If you’re a leader, a developer, or a designer about to start a major website project, this webinar will help you navigate the important topic of accessibility. <a href="https://twitter.com/corymiller303">Cory Miller</a> is joined by the team at <a href="https://tri.be/">Modern Tribe</a> &#8211; <a href="https://twitter.com/ChrisMKindred">Chris Kindred</a>, Director of Backend Development, <a href="https://twitter.com/sarahgless">Sarah Gless</a>, Creative Director, and <a href="https://twitter.com/mjklanac">Mike Klanac</a>, Director of Business Development, to discuss why accessibility is imperative and how to integrate it into each aspect of development and implementation. </p></div>


<div class="wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper"></div>



<p class="yoast-reading-time__wrapper"><span class="yoast-reading-time__icon"></span><span class="yoast-reading-time__spacer"></span><span class="yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class="yoast-reading-time__reading-time">45</span><span class="yoast-reading-time__time-unit"> minutes</span></p>
</div></div>







<p><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript">Transcript</a> ↓</p>



<p class="wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio">The talented team from <a href="https://tri.be/">Modern Tribe</a>  joined <a href="https://twitter.com/corymiller303">Cory Miller</a> for this critical discussion about accessibility in WordPress. They highlight accessibility as a non-negotiable aspect of web development and provide guidance for leaders, developers, and designers to ensure your websites are accessible to all people.</p>



<p class="wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>



<ul type="video" class="wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio">
<li><strong>Why Value Accessibility? </strong>Accessibility ensures all people have access to the things we create. It can’t be an afterthought or something for the web dev team to figure out. It must drive the entire creative process and serve as an anchor to ground our teams and our work.</li>



<li><strong>Requirement vs. Challenge.</strong> Most creative projects work within a set of requirements. These don’t prohibit the creative process. Instead, they challenge us to enhance the things we build and make them better than we might have without thinking through and within these constraints.</li>



<li><strong>It’s All Around Us.</strong> We think of accessibility as a new idea, but in so many spaces, it’s the norm. We have curb cutouts and braille signage. We see this every day, so tech is catching up.</li>



<li>Improving Usability. Developing through the lens of accessibility means delivering experiences that solve people’s problems and help them with tasks.</li>



<li><strong>It Takes Tools.</strong> The creative and engineering are just rails. Utilizing tools to ensure accessibility when publishing and setting up processes and guidelines will equip you to flex as requirements change. It’s necessary for your organization to resource accessibility for it to be done effectively.</li>
</ul>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div>



<h3 class="eplus-wrapper" id="h-mentioned-in-the-show"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png" alt="🔗" class="wp-smiley" /> Mentioned in the show<strong>:</strong></h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://tri.be/">Modern Tribe</a></li>



<li><a href="https://vimeo.com/148927676">Eric Meyer</a></li>



<li><a href="https://myspace.com/">MySpace</a></li>
</ul>



<h3 class="eplus-wrapper" id="h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png" alt="🐦" class="wp-smiley" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>



<ul class="eplus-wrapper">
<li><a href="https://twitter.com/brandondove"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ChrisMKindred">Chris Kindred</a> (Director of Backend Development, <a href="https://twitter.com/pixel_jar"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ModernTribeAgcy">Modern Tribe</a>)</li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/sarahgless">Sarah Gless</a> (Creative Director, <a href="https://twitter.com/pixel_jar"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ModernTribeAgcy">Modern Tribe</a>)</li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/mjklanac">Mike Klanac</a> (Director of Business Development, <a href="https://twitter.com/pixel_jar"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ModernTribeAgcy">Modern Tribe</a>)</li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/corymiller303">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/lemonadecode">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>
</ul>



<p class="eplus-wrapper has-background">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png" alt="📝" class="wp-smiley" /><br /><br /><a href="https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">iTunes</a>, <a href="https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">YouTube</a>, <a href="http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Stitcher</a>, <a href="https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Simplecast</a>, or <a href="https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P">RSS</a>. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png" alt="🎧" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<h2 class="eplus-wrapper" id="h-transcript">Transcript</h2>



<p>Cory Miller: [00:00:00] Everybody welcome back to another Post Status Live. This is where we<br />do, uh, webinars and interviews with our awesome members at Post Status. And today we&#8217;ve<br />got a great talented team from Modern Tribe.<br />I&#8217;m gonna let them unpack a little bit more about what Modern Tribe does and what they do at<br />Modern Tribe. But today, our topic is gonna be the right approach to WordPress accessibility.<br />This kinda, this really came to the forefront for us and why I sought these experts out because<br />accessibility is a non-negotiable for the web.<br />Um, and they&#8217;re gonna talk more about their passion, their experiences, their expertise around<br />that. But I will just say this is a topic that we need to be talking about more, and we&#8217;re<br />specifically doing this webinar, and I&#8217;ve asked them to come on and share. Particular areas and<br />work inaccessibility with WordPress.<br />But if you&#8217;re a leader, you&#8217;re a developer, you&#8217;re a designer, um, starting to embark on a, on a<br />website project and want rightly so, to [00:01:00] make sure your website is accessible to all<br />people. This is, this is the extended webinar for you. We&#8217;re gonna talk, we&#8217;re gonna talk about a<br />lot. We&#8217;re gonna talk about how does a c-suite or leadership team properly resource and lead,<br />uh, in the accessibility projects for your organization, all the way down to the developers,<br />designers, the people that use the website every single day to make sure you&#8217;re doing your best<br />for those, trying to access your website.<br />So, I wanna introduce these te these, uh, this team today, but I&#8217;m gonna let you do that. So,<br />Mike, could you start us off and share, um, a little bit about what you do with, with, uh, uh, your<br />work at Modern Tribe and, uh, your interest in this whole topic of accessibility?<br />Mike Klanac: Yeah, thanks Corey. Um, my name is Mike Klan.<br />I am the Director of Business Development at Modern Tribe. Um, that&#8217;s essentially a sales role<br />here. [00:02:00] Um, and, uh, I&#8217;m really excited to talk more about accessibility. Um, I, you know,<br />to be transparent, I was actually a little nervous at first, uh, because of my role as essentially a<br />sales role. And, um, this is such an important topic and, and Corey in like preparing for this, you<br />said something that, that resonated with me, which is, , you know, if this is important, um, don&#8217;t<br />feel bad about being an advocate for it and talking about it.<br />Um, so, uh, that helped build my confidence. So I&#8217;m excited to be here to talk more especially<br />about, uh, accessibility as it relates to leadership and as it relates to a core value that stretches<br />across all components of your business. Uh, so, um, yeah, I think continue on with introductions<br />and maybe I could circle back and, and tell you a little bit more about, uh, tribe and how long<br />we&#8217;ve been around.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. We&#8217;ll, we&#8217;ll come back to you, but I think you, you know, one compelling<br />reason you&#8217;re here too is because you do talk to people that are making decisions, [00:03:00]<br />but not necessarily always the people doing the work too. And it&#8217;s a collaborative approach. And<br />I know your heart, you&#8217;re super, super humble, but very experienced.<br />Mm-hmm. , um, professional. So I&#8217;m really glad to have you on here and you&#8217;re gonna talk first<br />as we, after we do introductions about the whole leadership angle for all of this. Um, Chris and<br />Sarah. Yeah,<br />Chris Kindred: thanks. Um, my name&#8217;s Chris Kendrick. I am, uh, director of backend, um,<br />engineering here at Modern Tribe. Um, I, accessibility&#8217;s always been a passion of mine, um, and<br />it&#8217;s been, uh, really great to come on board at somewhere like Modern Tribe, where they take<br />flexibility so seriously.<br />So, uh, that&#8217;s always been a, a great thing for, for me, um, moving forward. So,<br />yeah.<br />Sarah Gless: Hi, I&#8217;m Sarah Glass. Oh, sorry.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead Sarah. Yeah, thanks Chris.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah, thank you for having us. Um, I&#8217;m Sarah Glass. I&#8217;m the creative Director at<br />Modern [00:04:00] Tribe. Ultimately, that means I&#8217;m in service to both our clients, making sure<br />that we&#8217;re shipping incredibly beautiful and, and and engaging work, um, as well as our design</p>



<p>team, ensuring that, you know, they&#8217;re fulfilled in and the work that they&#8217;re doing, and we&#8217;re<br />continuously developing and pushing the work forward.<br />Um, I&#8217;m super passionate about accessibility too. You know, I think that, as you know, coming<br />from a design background, um, ultimately I wanna communicate effectively with, with, with<br />people. And, um, if, if you cut off people in those lanes of communication, um, how good is that<br />design? So I, I truly believe that good design is accessible design.<br />Um, super excited to, to be here and, and chat more about.<br />Cory Miller: I can&#8217;t wait to dig in with all three of you because what you just said, Sarah, is good<br />access, good accessibility is good design. And I think there&#8217;s probably a lot of designers out<br />there that just kind of like, oh, okay, we can do this. So I&#8217;m looking forward to talking more about<br />that, particularly, um, I&#8217;m gonna hype &#8217;em up,<br />[00:05:00] Yeah, absolutely. This can be, you know, that&#8217;s another message in all this, this can<br />be done. There is an approach, a good approach to it, and it is possible, and I think that&#8217;s a<br />really great message. Um, so Mike, before we kind of get into the actual topics, could you tell us<br />a little bit more about Modern Tribe as an agency?<br />Mike Klanac: Sure, sure. I&#8217;ll give you the short version. So, um, Modern Tribe, we like to call<br />ourselves a full service digital design and development agency. Um, we&#8217;ve been around for<br />about 15 years now, uh, and recently joined the liquid web family of brands. Um, I think like one<br />of the way, another way we describe ourselves is we say we connect to the touchpoints of your<br />digital ecosystem.<br />Um, and when I say that, I think what&#8217;s important to note is kind of that WordPress is often. the<br />center, it&#8217;s the hub, the WordPress TMS is the hub of that ecosystem. So we lean on, on<br />WordPress heavily. [00:06:00] Um, and our, our business, I mean, it sort of breaks down into<br />four key categories. There&#8217;s strategy, there&#8217;s content, there&#8217;s design, there&#8217;s engineering, um,<br />and that&#8217;s sort of who we are.<br />Um, accessibility of the topic at hand today, uh, as you&#8217;ll see it, it sort of permeates all of those<br />areas and it&#8217;s sort of core to who we are, um, as an organization. So, um, yeah, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re<br />press agency.<br />Cory Miller: And I know you all work with some name brand organizations. Maybe you can&#8217;t all<br />talk about it, but I&#8217;m aware enough to know that you all have worked with some of the biggest<br />brands that are household names, helping them specifically, not just with their web, but also that<br />this important part, accessibility.<br />And some of these, uh, organizations, Mike, particularly I know from talking with you all<br />background about this, is if you take federal funding in any way, particularly in the United States,<br />it, it&#8217;s not even a conversation about is it, is [00:07:00] it a thing we should do? It&#8217;s like, no, you<br />do it. And I think that amps us up even more.<br />Um, thankfully, government non-profits have led the way with accessibility, but this is something<br />we&#8217;ll talk more about. Everybody should be doing this. Um, this is this, we&#8217;re in 2023 now today.<br />And it, this is just a part and I&#8217;m, that&#8217;s why, another reason I&#8217;m glad, but you all work with these<br />organizations where you&#8217;re like, there&#8217;s a lot of scrutiny on these organizations you work with.<br />That means that that&#8217;s a good thing in a way because they have to make sure, like Sarah was<br />saying, that this website is successful for anyone that wants to, to access it. So, uh, I think that&#8217;s<br />pretty critical and also demonstrates why I asked Modern Tribe and U three to come on to talk<br />about this today.<br />So, okay, here&#8217;s the layout. We&#8217;re gonna talk about leadership. Now for those of you watching<br />and listening, um, we&#8217;re gonna each, each of the experts, I&#8217;ve asked to talk about a specific area<br />related to their expertise, but you&#8217;re gonna hear from them. I&#8217;ve told them, I said, [00:08:00] I<br />don&#8217;t want you to stay silent.<br />Mike&#8217;s part part, I want you to contribute too, because. As we&#8217;ve talked and prepared for this, it&#8217;s<br />helped me understand this is a holistic process that everybody in the organization needs to<br />embrace. And so, again, I&#8217;ll, I&#8217;ll just say to y&#8217;all, please, if Mike&#8217;s talking, share something from<br />your perspective about this, uh, please do that.<br />Cause I think this is gonna help people. Our intention here is you&#8217;re trying to do right and good<br />by this for your website project. So I want you all to like, help them really understand these are<br />the things we work with clients about. These are the problems we see, these are the challenges<br />we see and here&#8217;s our thoughts.</p>



<p>Because you, you are experts in this and you see things that I think could make those trying to<br />cross this threshold, um, truly be prepared for and make really good decisions that helps<br />everybody involved, even if they don&#8217;t choose modern tribe as the agency. So again, I think<br />that&#8217;s right on important.<br />Okay, so let&#8217;s just start right here, because [00:09:00] oftentimes, as I understand this, both<br />leading my own organizations, listening to you all and other agency members that post status, I<br />go, um, this type of decision needs to start at the, you know, the top of the hierarchy here. If the<br />leaders aren&#8217;t on board or don&#8217;t fully understand it, this is gonna be a problem.<br />So, I hope those leaders listening, this is your time to take notes because Mike, I, I want you to<br />kind of, what do you think of when you&#8217;re saying, okay, I am, let&#8217;s say a c e O of an organization<br />or in the C-suite or leadership team. I need to start helping think through this, you know,<br />accessibility for what we do on the web.<br />What stands out to you when we talked about leadership and WordPress accessibility.<br />Mike Klanac: Yeah, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m so glad we get to talk about it from this perspective, because so<br />often accessibility can get pretty dense and technical right away. Um, but in today&#8217;s modern<br />world, uh, it it&#8217;s more than that. And it&#8217;s something that permeates all aspects of your business if<br />you [00:10:00] want it to be successful.<br />And therefore, it often has to start with leadership, um, realizing why it&#8217;s, IM important. Um, it&#8217;s,<br />it&#8217;s gotta be built as a core consideration, um, to all of those various layers. Uh, and the best<br />organizations, the really effective organizations that care and are considerate of their users<br />make this a, a core value.<br />It&#8217;s, it literally becomes, um, part of the culture. Top to bottom. Um, so I think one of the ways to<br />build that understanding is to really think about like, why you&#8217;re doing this. And we hit on the<br />legal implications initially, and I think that&#8217;s where a lot of people first start thinking about this for<br />some reason.<br />But you kind of need to back up and really remember that one of the first reasons this is<br />important is, is just morally, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s morally important. It&#8217;s a part of digital inclusivity. We are<br />creating tools that serve [00:11:00] users, that serve people, and therefore we need to care for<br />them. We need to think about how they use it.<br />And that applies to all of the users. It&#8217;s an increasingly competitive world. We don&#8217;t have the<br />luxury of, um, excluding people because it&#8217;s not convenient to, um, build tools that serve them<br />effectively. So I think like we really need to ground ourselves in the moral component of this first,<br />which is it&#8217;s the right thing to do.<br />It&#8217;s just the right thing to do, therefore needs to be a leadership initiative. It needs to be brought<br />in, carried through to all components, all layers of your business. Okay. So that&#8217;s like the first<br />thing that I would probably tell a leader in this space is that make it a part of all of your thinking.<br />Cory Miller: I mean, you know, I, we were talking about a client used to consult with before we<br />started recording and I was like, you could tell there the client one did the traditional thing, print<br />off your core values, put it on all the doors, and you&#8217;re like, cool. Yeah. But what are your real<br />core values? [00:12:00] And it seems to me, as you talk about one, there is a business reason<br />to do this, very legitimate that it&#8217;s gonna get a lot of people&#8217;s attention.<br />But I think what you were, you&#8217;re saying is like it should reflect a value that you might not have<br />on the door, but like we care. Yes, we care about the whole population and being able to get to<br />the things that we offer. And if we don&#8217;t, it it, I mean that rings really true when you say that<br />business, there&#8217;s a legitimate business reason and that should hopefully check most boxes.<br />But I think the other thing is that you should actually just care. Yeah. We&#8217;ve all probably been<br />touched in some way with someone that has, uh, uh, uh, something that doesn&#8217;t allow them to<br />see, read, hear, whatever that is, um, that we need to be thinking about that. Just because we<br />don&#8217;t have that particular issue doesn&#8217;t mean there&#8217;s a pretty significant one is a significant<br />enough to me.<br />But I mean this, we&#8217;re talking about in this accessibility [00:13:00] conversation quite a bit of the<br />population that most organizations have flatly not even thought about till today.<br />Mike Klanac: Exactly. Yeah, I think it just sends the right message. You know, when you&#8217;re the<br />type of organization that takes the time to be deliberate and considerate of all of your users,<br />there&#8217;s probably an understanding that that carries through to your product.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re selling something, um, you, your service, your, your organization as a whole. So, um,<br />it&#8217;s just the right thing to do. And I think, I think we should just start there as it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s morally right.<br />And as you hit on, um, and to segue a little bit, there are legitimate business reasons. So, um,<br />making sure that your, your site is fully accessible, has this effect of improving the quality, the<br />experience for your users.<br />And that sort of in some ways overlays these other topics that we often talk about as like key<br />performance indicators for businesses. [00:14:00] Things like search engine optimization, um,<br />core web vitals. Um, these are adjacent to each other. So it it&#8217;s about creating an experience<br />that is a user experience that&#8217;s quality for everyone, and therefore your, your business will feel<br />that it&#8217;ll have an impact.<br />Um, so not only is it the right thing to do, morally a highly accessible site that&#8217;s gonna benefit<br />your, your clicks, your conversions, and all those things that we&#8217;ve spent so much time thinking<br />about, um, and that we&#8217;re starting to, to kind of like land a couple of really important reasons. It&#8217;s<br />like, you know, it&#8217;s what&#8217;s good as a person, it&#8217;s what&#8217;s good for business.<br />Um, it th those alone are, are enough reason, right, to really think long and hard about this. Um,<br />But there&#8217;s this final one too, which is the one we kind of backed into this from, which was,<br />there&#8217;s some legal requirements here. I I, I pulled a stat, and I think everyone&#8217;s aware of this,<br />but, [00:15:00] um, 2,800 accessibility lawsuits in 2021.<br />Um, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s like, it&#8217;s a big deal. And those lawsuits, um, are meaningful and there&#8217;s a place<br />for them. Um, but more important than the litigation itself is you just have an opportunity to get<br />ahead of this if you do things right, and that can get confusing. Um, I, sorry, you&#8217;re gonna jump<br />in. I&#8217;ll take a beat.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah, no, I, I think, um, I&#8217;m curious to hear what Chris and Sarah think too,<br />because it&#8217;s like, you know, we&#8217;ve all been to those situations, uh, where you&#8217;re like, the<br />organization talks a really good talk. Yeah. You know, and we&#8217;ve got plenty of those in our<br />society globally today. But you know, the ones that talk.<br />And you know that ones that just act on that value. And I think this shines pretty clearly whether<br />you go to a website, you see the accessibility blue circle or whatever this is. And I think<br />[00:16:00] this is an opportunity. I&#8217;m curious what Chris and Sarah think too from just an<br />organization standpoint of like when you see someone taking it to this degree, not because they<br />necessarily have to, a lot of these have to, but, and there&#8217;s a probably legitimate reason why<br />there&#8217;s regulations and laws and different things in these lawsuits is because like, okay, if you&#8217;re<br />not gonna do the right thing, the, the world society will kind of push you in that regard.<br />But I think, I&#8217;m curious what you think Chris and Sarah is like, this is a way to get out front and<br />lead act on those values. You can&#8217;t just say you care, but if you care enough to make sure your<br />website is A to B, everybody can can access that and and consume the information and<br />whatever you&#8217;re trying to offer in the world, that&#8217;s an opportunity for leadership to me.<br />So Sarah, Chris, what do you think? . I, yeah,<br />Chris Kindred: I, uh, okay. Uh, I, I think there&#8217;s a huge opportunity there. One of the things we<br />tend to hear is, well, that&#8217;s not the kind of person we&#8217;re marketing to. And [00:17:00] you know,<br />there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s so much more than that going on with accessibility. It&#8217;s, you know, you may not<br />be marketing to &#8217;em right now, but who knows what&#8217;s going to happen in the future.<br />They, they, uh, or, or, um, friends that they have that, that kind of thing, they can help, um, push<br />along whatever product you&#8217;re pushing. And in those cases, so, you know, you&#8217;ve got, um,<br />you&#8217;ve got companies that come at it from that angle and, and there&#8217;s a little bit of education that<br />we have to do to help kind of get &#8217;em over that hump of this.<br />This is, this is a moral thing as well, . It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s not who you&#8217;re marketing to. It is that you are<br />marketing to everybody. Everyone&#8217;s going to see it, and it&#8217;s important that everybody be able to<br />see it.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah, and I think that, like, going back to Mike&#8217;s original point, like it takes the<br />organization to do that.<br />It cannot be on the shoulders of like your web team. Um, yes, they are like [00:18:00] hands-on<br />producing and shipping that thing. Um, but that thing should be symbolic of like a much larger,<br />um, um, effort around accessibility. Um, and, and your kind of example around, you know,<br />posting your, your core values as a, as a company on the wall, um, and accessibility or<br />inclusivity being on that, um, kind of made me start to think like, what&#8217;s like a real example of, of<br />this.</p>



<p>Um, you know, like I, I. And transferring that responsibility, not transferring, but sharing that<br />responsibility across the organization means you have to figure out, like, how can each<br />department take part in that? Um, how can we better collaborate on that mission? Um, I think,<br />you know, I&#8217;ve spent a lot of times on and, and working with like brand and marketing teams,<br />great opportunity for, for, for people to get involved in accessibility that may not be, um, on the<br />line to like ship that, that website necessarily.<br />Um, for example, we mentioned, you know, calling out your brand [00:19:00] values. Maybe<br />you&#8217;ve got, you know, being inclusive as, as, as a brand value. Well back that up with like, you<br />know, shipping accessible designs on the marketing side. So like, if you&#8217;re working on a brand<br />book, um, A big part of that is establishing a color palette.<br />Um, and that color palette has implications across so much of your collateral across the<br />organization, including that website. Now, oftentimes what happens on like design, um, is that<br />we&#8217;re handed a brand book with colors we can&#8217;t use, and now we&#8217;re having to rework that<br />because accessibility was never consideration going into that.<br />Um, so that&#8217;s like a, a various, you know, tech like tactile example of, of how one little shift, you<br />know, like, and if your team doesn&#8217;t have the specialties to do that, that&#8217;s okay. Like lean on a<br />team of experts to help and collaborate on that. So bring in the web team into, you know, that<br />brand conversation and when you&#8217;re developing that color palette or, or whatever the thing is,<br />um, to get their [00:20:00] expertise and, and, and make sure that we&#8217;re living up to that kind of,<br />you know, core tenant of being inclusive and accessible.<br />And also, um, Beyond just being like the right thing to do. Like, you know, if you do work ahead,<br />the more you work ahead on accessibility, the more money you&#8217;ll save down the road, um,<br />because you don&#8217;t have to rework as much. So, um, definitely another, you know, kind of<br />business, um, opportunity.<br />Cory Miller: And I, I think, thanks for that.<br />Oh, Chris, go ahead.<br />Chris Kindred: Well, that, that just made me start thinking, um, one of the things is accessibility<br />doesn&#8217;t just stop with your digital things. Um, I, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a billboard I drive past or used to<br />drive past all the time, and I could barely read it because it was blue on blue and it just didn&#8217;t,<br />didn&#8217;t work well for, for me as I was driving a car 60 miles an hour past it.<br />I, I, if you&#8217;re going. Put that your, uh, that accessibility and, [00:21:00] and being inclusive as<br />part of your core values that trickles into your billboard, that trickles into the entryway to your<br />business, that that trickles into so many other things in order to prove it.<br />Sarah Gless: It&#8217;s a mind shift, isn&#8217;t it? Like when you, when you Yeah, when and, but it, but<br />once you start doing and getting the practice of that and resource for it, that&#8217;s a critical part of<br />this, right?<br />Um, you, it will become a habit. And, and that&#8217;s a good habit to have.<br />Cory Miller: And I keep shaping this mike in my mind as it&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a problem, but if we can do it,<br />you just said Sarah and shift her mind, we go, this is an opportunity to show people we care. We<br />don&#8217;t have to put the word on there. If we do certain things like this, just like we&#8217;ve mentioned,<br />diversity, equity, inclusion, huge topic and rightly.<br />This is going, if we truly want to act on that, we need to think about that person who might be<br />blind and trying to ex, like you were talking about, you know, the color palettes and things. It&#8217;s to<br />that thought. [00:22:00] But Mike, it seems like too, I think Chris and Boer helped me today.<br />Like, let&#8217;s add another reason here.<br />This is a team Mork, Hey, we care. So we&#8217;re doing this accessibility project and, and other<br />initiatives in the business side of things that they can do to say, we&#8217;re not just gonna say it, we&#8217;re<br />gonna do it. I mean, this seems like when you go to your team, like Sarah was saying, and<br />you&#8217;re like, Hey, leadership has bought in on this and understands it.<br />Now we go to the team, we want, hey, we want everyone as best we can to do, to, to be able to<br />access things.<br />Mike Klanac: It&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a foundational, um, shift in how you think about it. So a small example<br />would be we used to, um, ask, do you need your site to be accessible? And now we just<br />assume we&#8217;re gonna build accessible sites.<br />And we used to take a pass at estimating a project and then sort of like do some additional math<br />to calculate accessibility. Now we assume accessibility is a part of every estimate that [00:23:00]</p>



<p>you&#8217;re doing. Every line item of the feature level estimate incorporates accessibility thinking.<br />Um, and that&#8217;s, and that&#8217;s, that changes the approach.<br />It, it&#8217;s, it starts at the beginning. It carries through all the way to the end. And I, I think I would be<br />remiss not to mention one other topic on leadership that this conversation is sort of remind me<br />of, which is that these standards we&#8217;re talking accessibility is sort of this like, like just just this<br />open-ended term, but it, it means probably slightly different things.<br />And from a leadership standpoint, I think one other thing you need to really consider is what<br />standard are you, in some cases mandated to hit? And just understanding that is part of the<br />leadership obligation because you are the person that may often understand where you&#8217;re doing<br />business, what your jurisdictions are, um, what, what laws you&#8217;re bound to.<br />And if you&#8217;re as an international organization, we, we work with groups in Europe, we work with<br />groups [00:24:00] in California. We, we work with groups that have different sets of<br />requirements and different guidelines. So I think an important note for anyone who&#8217;s, who&#8217;s<br />gonna try to build this philosophy into their organization as they should, uh, is to, to like really<br />fundamentally set some clear guidelines to your team and say that based on where we do<br />business and where we&#8217;re approaching it, the way we&#8217;re approaching it, we&#8217;re gonna try to hit,<br />you know, stay tuned to section 5 0 8.<br />Um, And, and the, the outlines set in WIC AG two one, aa. Like we, there needs to be some<br />basis for what you&#8217;re aiming towards. Uh, it doesn&#8217;t, doesn&#8217;t mean that, um, you can&#8217;t go past<br />that. Um, but uh, you probably need to have that guiding light.<br />Cory Miller: Uh, and I think there&#8217;s a relief for me talking to you all on this too, because when I<br />know for instance, this is a value, right?<br />That we want to, that I love you, you said, uh, just it&#8217;s assumed. You know, [00:25:00] we&#8217;re in<br />2023 having this conversation. It doesn&#8217;t matter what&#8217;s been in the past today, this is just an<br />assumption that mind shift shift, um, but that it occurs to me, you know, as a leader and then<br />we&#8217;ve all kind of talked this and know this, we can&#8217;t know every single thing.<br />Like you&#8217;re talking about these specific legislation, policies, regulations out there. You can&#8217;t<br />possibly. So, but I wanna say there&#8217;s hope. That&#8217;s why we&#8217;re having this conversation. That&#8217;s<br />why there&#8217;s great experts in WordPress overall. Try being one of them that, um, can help<br />navigate some of those. Like it doesn&#8217;t need to be the, the thing that you keep up with at the<br />absolute.<br />That&#8217;s why you hire people like you all to even mention some of these things. Like I&#8217;ve been in<br />tech a long time and I learned something when I&#8217;m talking about when to you all about these<br />things that I hadn&#8217;t considered. And I think that&#8217;s a maybe a sense. Is like, there&#8217;s a little bit of<br />relief you can say like you want to do the right thing.<br />That&#8217;s why you go seek out experts that do. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve enjoyed preparation about this. I&#8217;ve<br />learned [00:26:00] a ton that I wouldn&#8217;t even considered . Like Sarah, you were talking about the<br />brand and I go more design Chris than tech sometimes, cuz I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m talking about<br />with tech all the time. But I go take this thought and go to your brand values.<br />We have oranges ours, but I have no idea how that expresses itself necessarily. Right. Uh, on<br />the web for someone that&#8217;s hurt and that&#8217;s a holistic thinking. We&#8217;re thinking like we, we&#8217;ve hit<br />this do do good and it&#8217;s got a pretty dang good benefit because it&#8217;s like absolutely. You can<br />actually reflect and show what you&#8217;re doing.<br />So.<br />Sarah Gless: Absolutely. Um, yeah. And you mentioned like. Kind of like leaning on on experts.<br />And that ki kind of got me thinking, like, I think there&#8217;s this expectation. Um, I know design<br />designers put this expectation on them to, to, um, sometimes to, to be able to like have<br />expertise in this. And like we absolutely have to have, you know, baseline knowledge and, and<br />skills that apply to [00:27:00] our work to meet accessibility.<br />But, um, you know, as an organization, if you&#8217;re in a marketing team, um, for example, and<br />you&#8217;re like, do I, do I need to know everything about accessibility? No. And there&#8217;s no, I mean,<br />accessibility is a, you know, a full team of effort. Um, yeah. Um, at Modern Tribe, we&#8217;ve got a full<br />dedicated QA team that is testing rigorously everything we design and build.<br />Um, so, so no. But can you get to a place where you&#8217;ve got like a good baseline knowledge of<br />accessibility and or also like resources that you know you can turn to, whether it be, um, your<br />own team internally that&#8217;s focused on accessibility, your leadership has resource for awesome.</p>



<p>Or, um, if you can work with consultants or agencies like us or, or what whoever, um, get that,<br />that resource embedded in your team so you can turn to them, um, for their expertise.<br />Because [00:28:00] accessibility is like this ever-changing thing that will continue to grow. Um,<br />and, and I just wanna, like, I think that&#8217;s something like in my own past, I put that pressure on<br />myself and, um mm-hmm. , it&#8217;s a lot of pressure and it can, can kind of, um, um, get you away<br />from other, you know, priorities within your role.<br />So acknowledge that you do not have to, um, necessarily be experts, inaccessibility, but you do<br />have like a moral and business responsibility. To care about it and get help when you need it.<br />Um, um, so yeah,<br />Cory Miller: I think, I think that&#8217;s, that, that&#8217;s a great point. Um, in, in all this. Um, and now we&#8217;re<br />gonna shift to you in just a moment to talk specifically about design, Sarah.<br />But Mike, before we do that, I just wanna make sure, I think we&#8217;ve hit really big pillars here. Um,<br />moral business requirements, , it can be, there&#8217;s an opportunity here to lead and show that you<br />truly care. Um, anything else you think about when you&#8217;re, when you&#8217;re thinking about leaders<br />[00:29:00] making these decisions, wanting to give those resources to design and team and<br />things like that, anything else that we missed that you wanna share?<br />Mike Klanac: Just to like summarize, it&#8217;s a tremendous opportunity. It went from being, uh, a<br />challenge, a problem to No, this is just an opportunity to better serve our, our audience. Um, and<br />that&#8217;s how I would be thinking about it.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah, what a great mind shift and what a great takeaway we have more. So if<br />you&#8217;re a leader in an, an organization making these decisions, stay on because there&#8217;s more,<br />because this is a, we&#8217;re we&#8217;re evolving and growing this concept, like we&#8217;ve been saying as a<br />mind shift, shift change over.<br />What a great, great way to sum up that, Mike. Thank you. Okay, so Sarah, now let&#8217;s just talk<br />creative and design, because a part of this, I&#8217;ll just say this, I was like, okay, I can get the<br />decision. Like I can really embody that and go, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;ll take time, it will take effort, it will take<br />money. But as we&#8217;re talking, I go, [00:30:00] gosh, I&#8217;ve been in the seat too, where you&#8217;re a<br />marketing person or you&#8217;re trying to ship the work into, through the website and there&#8217;s<br />decisions and things that you need to be thinking about that.<br />So as we talk about in this role, creative and design, what, what things stick out to you as we<br />approach the accessibility topic?<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah, absolutely. Well, um, I think just acknowledging that it is a requirement. Um,<br />I think that there&#8217;s this kind of stigma that accessible design, um, pro, you know, prohibits<br />creativity, um, in a way that, you know, accessibly designed websites.<br />Are ugly , for lack of a better term. Um, and I think that that stems from, you know, a history of,<br />of hearing about lawsuits and, and, and building requirements around certain sectors. Um,<br />particularly like the government. Um, and websites for governments or government, um,<br />institutions are, are, are typically not known for, [00:31:00] um, their design.<br />There are a few, of course . Um, so it&#8217;s, it, you know, accessibility, I think in the design world has<br />a, a, a reputation that it&#8217;s gonna restrict me. Um, and I don&#8217;t like to think about that like that. I, I, I<br />want, you know, our design team, we, we sh we, we have a mindset that it&#8217;s just an a<br />requirement and any creative brief you get, um, I&#8217;m sorry, but it&#8217;s gonna have requirements on it.<br />Um, and so if you think about that and shift your mind into thinking that way, it truly does<br />become a creative opportunity, um, and a creative challenge. And, um, I think designers and<br />creatives. Tend to work very well if you give them some structure, but then opportunities to<br />innovate and there&#8217;s tons of opportunities to do that with accessibility.<br />Um, I think of like a past project we worked on for, um, oh, very well known, uh, Ivy League, uh,<br />school, um, that, you know, we designed a, a navigation, it was very robust, it [00:32:00] was<br />very, um, uh, boundary pushing, I&#8217;ll say on the design side. And at first blush, it did not look like<br />it was going to meet accessibility.<br />Um, we worked and collaborated with our QA team, our engineering team, um, and within those<br />boundaries of accessibility and or those requirements, um, and looking at this thing that we<br />really wanted to like put live into the world, we figured it out. Um, and we shipped a very<br />accessible, um, site and navigation that ended up winning a design award like.<br />You can do it. It&#8217;s totally possible. Does it take more resources and time? Yes, but it&#8217;s like po you<br />know? Yes. Um, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s no way around that, but yes. Um, but you, it, it&#8217;s, it, it truly can</p>



<p>actually lead to like innovative ideas because, um, even within those requirements, there&#8217;s,<br />there&#8217;s bars to push and like, uh, [00:33:00] uh, figure out how to, to, um, uh, make this work.<br />Cory Miller: So, yeah, I think what you&#8217;re saying, so I fancy myself sometimes justified or not as<br />a creative, and what I hear when you say that is, I know there&#8217;s a bunch of people, when you<br />said the first part feels like it could prohibit, they&#8217;re probably like, yeah, it feels that way. But then<br />you spun it around and you said, this is an opportunity here.<br />I I, when I fancy myself as a creative, I go, constraints are actually really good in a lot of cases.<br />And so if, if it&#8217;s a challenge, Hey, you&#8217;ve give, you&#8217;re given these tools. Take it and be creative.<br />Like that&#8217;s what I got from that example you just gave is like, we looked at it potentially as an<br />obstacle, but we turned it into an opportunity to be really creative and make it work.<br />And I think that&#8217;s part of like, I&#8217;ll get a little fur here and say artistic, like when you say you&#8217;re<br />creative, it means like, don&#8217;t look at these as problems. [00:34:00] Look at &#8217;em as opportunities.<br />You know, that&#8217;s the thing we got with leadership. It seems like. That&#8217;s what I just, I wrote it<br />down. I was like, we&#8217;re talking about how this challenge can be viewed as an opportunity and for<br />creatives, having worked with some creatives, I&#8217;m like, Hey, see what you can do.<br />Yeah. The best things. See what you, yeah.<br />See what you can get away with. , ,<br />Sarah Gless: no, little rebellious ,<br />Mike Klanac: as a definite not creative. I, I really think this is an interesting part of the<br />conversation and somewhere out there, well, this is the part that I can add, I can add that there&#8217;s<br />an article about like Jack White and the White Stripes.<br />There&#8217;s this like idea of threes where they stay within three colors, three instruments, and that<br />that parameter within that, they try to push innovation as much as possible, and clearly they&#8217;ve<br />been successful with it, so.<br />Sarah Gless: Absolutely. That&#8217;s awesome. I, and you know, like, oh, go ahead Chris.<br />Chris Kindred: I, I feel like there&#8217;s another aspect specifically to the, the, um, menu that you&#8217;re,<br />that you&#8217;re talking about there [00:35:00] as a technical team.<br />When we look at a menu that came in like that, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re looking at it going, now there&#8217;s the,<br />this is gonna be difficult, .<br />And the, the amazing part is though, . It just takes some communication. It takes the team<br />working together to figure out, okay, here&#8217;s where we can push a boundary. We, we, great point.<br />We know how to handle this piece. And we get that developed. We, we work with, you know,<br />our, our, our front end team does an amazing job at staying up to date with things like WIC ag<br />and, and we can really lean on them in, in some of these cases to say, okay, here&#8217;s how you can<br />accomplish this in an accessible way.<br />And then with com, with good communication between design and, and our, our engineering<br />team, we can, we can keep pushing those boundaries. Uh, you, you mentioned that it costs<br />more, it does cost more to be innovative [00:36:00] like that. That&#8217;s just part of being on the front<br />end of the curve. Right? If, if you are trying to push boundaries, it&#8217;s going to cost more.<br />but accessibility doesn&#8217;t have to cost more either. The innovation piece of it is what&#8217;s costing<br />more. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, if, if you&#8217;re, if you&#8217;re wanting to, to do a big award-winning nav,<br />heck yeah, let&#8217;s do it. Let&#8217;s jump in, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s do it together. Uh, but it doesn&#8217;t have to be that<br />way to be accessible either, right?<br />Mm-hmm. . So, yeah.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah. That multidisciplinary kind of approach is so critical. Um, I think it requires<br />both specialization and, uh, willingness, like multidisciplinary collaboration across teams to, to<br />do it. Right.<br />Cory Miller: Well, and we talked a lot about boundaries, pushing boundaries, and it seems to<br />me too, it&#8217;s like there&#8217;s probably some mental boundaries we put ourselves in if we think about it<br />as just, oh, this is a [00:37:00] problem and I don&#8217;t want to do it.<br />But I think what I hear from you too, Sarah, is like, Well, this, the, the regulations, the policies,<br />the things that govern this have actually created your canvas. You know, if we look at it like that<br />and we go Exactly. And then I love the challenge actually, like Chris going like, well, what can<br />cools, like even cross teams, we got a challenge, but let&#8217;s look at it as this opportunity to do<br />something really cool.</p>



<p>Like when you said the awards and stuff, like love that you&#8217;re like, do such a good job with this<br />challenge. They, you could actually win hearts and awards, you know? Exactly. And I think that&#8217;s<br />for creative people, I think that&#8217;s gotta be a stoking fire of like motivation. Oh, absolutely. An<br />inspiration.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah.<br />So that, like, nav wins an award ranks high on accessible websites in higher ed. Like what? I<br />mean, that&#8217;s just a perfect pair<br />Cory Miller: and that person out there trying to look, trying to do see here whatever to that<br />[00:38:00] information. They&#8217;ve, they&#8217;ve had these experts. Giving their creative talent to do it.<br />So there&#8217;s that other part of like, somebody got to make sure they didn&#8217;t miss that part of the<br />website or whatever was happening in the project.<br />So exactly like, how many wins do we need? People, , , you know, like, and Chris, you&#8217;re gonna<br />get your chance to talk tech too. Um, but I really, I really love this, like the words I hear from you,<br />Sarah, particularly as designer, you know, artistic and creative. You go, you said, doesn&#8217;t have<br />to restrict, doesn&#8217;t have to pro prohibit anything, can actually blossom and grow your creativity.<br />If you, if you look again, we&#8217;re talking about mind shifts and we say, Hey, this is just the canvas I<br />get to create on. I love that. So what else comes to your mind when we talk, when you&#8217;re talking<br />to creative teams and people really trying to make sure the experience is great? What are the<br />things that pop up to you as you&#8217;ve worked with clients and, and the teams?<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think, uh, I mentioned this a little bit earlier, [00:39:00] but just.<br />Taking the, knowing that you don&#8217;t have to be an expert at this thing. Like, and really, again, I<br />can&#8217;t hit home enough, like collaborating and, and building kind of an extension of your team to<br />support accessibility is so critical. Um, and putting resources towards that.<br />Um, whether that&#8217;s in-house or, or with an agency. Um, you know, I look at our own design team<br />as a great example. Like we, we definitely stay up on knowledge as it affects, you know, the, the<br />work that we&#8217;re working on. Um, but even our team who is talking about accessibility all the<br />time, We still ha have experts specifically dedicated to accessibility within our organization, our<br />QA team, who we can collaborate and lean on to ensure that the work that we are designing<br />and putting out into the world is tru truly accessible.<br />And so I, I just wanna really hit home like if you, if [00:40:00] you, um, are feeling maybe a little<br />overwhelmed, like, how do, how do I do this? Lean on people who know how to do it. Um, and<br />um, yeah,<br />Cory Miller: I think you all have modeled that for me in our discussions leading up to this. You<br />really have modeled it. We, I won&#8217;t get into the exact details, but when I was saying, Hey, we&#8217;re<br />gonna, okay, we got our date and all that, you all started asking these questions.<br />I didn&#8217;t think about that. And they were accessibility questions like naturally. But what I really,<br />really appreciated about you three, why we&#8217;re like working with really super talented people that<br />are also humble is you all team approached that I think Sarah, you&#8217;re like, okay, I think, I think<br />it&#8217;s this, but let me, I&#8217;m gonna go, I&#8217;m gonna go chase that with a team.<br />Chris, same way. And you guys were collaborating and I think what you all have modeled, what<br />you&#8217;re talking about the client should do is really look at this like it&#8217;s not on one particular person.<br />Yeah. Embrace the team concept. [00:41:00] We, we care. And that&#8217;s why as a team, we&#8217;re<br />gonna figure this out together.<br />Mike Klanac: Yeah. Yeah. It&#8217;s a, a perpetually changing topic. It&#8217;s guidelines are evolving,<br />browsers are evolving. The tools that people use are always changing. So if you&#8217;re an expert<br />one day, by the next day, you have more learning to do. And the way that we get around that is<br />by leaning on each other as a team, uh, and thinking about it as sort of a topic that we all need<br />to stay fresh on, um,<br />Cory Miller: and just care about.<br />I mean, this whole conversation evolved because you and I were talking to Mike, you know, and<br />I&#8217;m aware of the work you all do, and. You know, through us talking, you go, gotta have Chris,<br />gotta have Sarah on this call. That&#8217;s my, that&#8217;s You have a bigger team. Absolutely. You all have<br />a bigger team of course.<br />But you&#8217;re like, that&#8217;s a great model. So like we had you start with leadership in making those<br />decisions and then we&#8217;re gonna talk about creativity and then we&#8217;re gonna talk about tech. And<br />then you all have even lighten. Say there&#8217;s somebody else that [00:42:00] might not be in that<br />spec, but they&#8217;re the ones publishing the post or whatever it is to the site.</p>



<p>Exactly. Yeah. I think we&#8217;ve modeled this like cross-disciplinary, I think you said that too, Sarah<br />is like, okay, we, when we&#8217;re having these conversations, we do need leadership, do need tech,<br />we do need design. And probably the people actually doing this, the work, like into the world,<br />probably all need to be somehow represented in that conversation.<br />So I think I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m digressing from your subject, Sarah, but I just go, I think that just, again,<br />models, it&#8217;s a holistic whole team approach. We&#8217;re, we&#8217;re not gonna get it perfect, but we&#8217;re<br />gonna figure it out together. Absolutely. So I I love that too. I think you&#8217;ve given permission to<br />take some burden off Sarah, as like, yes.<br />You don&#8217;t have to be aid<br />Sarah Gless: as long as you lean on, on, on your, your internal teams or consultants in that, in<br />that area<br />Cory Miller: Care. Lean on your team. Yes. Try to make the best decisions, get the best<br />[00:43:00] experience. You may not win the award every single time, but hey, allowing someone<br />to do that, which probably has a fr I can&#8217;t imagine the frustration someone might feel trying to<br />get actually this cool tool called the internet, but Oh, tripped up like one of the best<br />communication tools ever invented in human history, yet there&#8217;s significant part of our population<br />that can&#8217;t get to it.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah. It&#8217;s like in the states, one in four, um, have a disability and I think globally<br />it&#8217;s one in six. Like think about those numbers. It&#8217;s like 25% in the us.<br />Cory Miller: That can&#8217;t,<br />Sarah Gless: that you may not be communicating with today on your website.<br />Cory Miller: I, uh, see again, you just go like, so let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s make this for a second, Mike.<br />I&#8217;m curious about this, but you two chime in. You go. If we were gonna say like, just make it a<br />business decision. If I went to any corporate leader, business leader in America and said, what if<br />you could get [00:44:00] 20% more than your gi, like, what if you could tap this market, Mike,<br />like from a market size, what if just from a business, okay, let&#8217;s take, take the pure human<br />element and you go, everybody, every business is looking for new markets to build and expand<br />on.<br />And you go the stat that&#8217;s you just shared, Sarah goes 20% of the popul. That, that, that if we<br />just embrace this right thing to do thing, you can get access to that. And imagine just from a<br />pure business standpoint, that market that&#8217;s served better than any they get anywhere else.<br />They&#8217;re gonna talk, they&#8217;re gonna share, do business here, do work here, because they&#8217;re<br />gonna be your most vocal evangelists.<br />So Mike, like from a pure business standpoint, and I go, let&#8217;s add it to the thing cuz this STA is<br />like we all think about the new markets that we could try to break into, you know, or grow our<br />existing thing. And you all just said, by the way, everybody ha you know, has a hard time with<br />this subject, but we&#8217;re giving you a [00:45:00] huge part of the population.<br />You could serve extremely well.<br />Mike Klanac: Again, yes. Massive opportunity. And, you know, we have so many conversations<br />where, where we will, um, sit and deliberate over customer journeys or you know, how to adjust<br />content in a way to gain just that slight advantage, that percentage change, that 1%, 2% change<br />in conversion or experience improvement.<br />And here&#8217;s an opportunity if you really think about it, to cater to a, you know, one in four people<br />in the United States. That&#8217;s a dramatic improvement. And, and that alone justifies, you know,<br />thinking about this start to finish. It&#8217;s just an incredible opportunity. Again, uh, it&#8217;s a no-brainer.<br />Cory Miller: I&#8217;ve told you all, I want Modern Tribe to do some stickers around these things that<br />I&#8217;ve heard as like core values should be accessibility.<br />Yeah. But it&#8217;s also like, Hey, uh, I got a secret. Do you wanna grow your business? Do the right<br />thing? Like, [00:46:00] just service me on the shirt. . Yeah. Get it on the shirt. Cause I need a<br />shirt for that. You know, I&#8217;m a, I&#8217;m a swag geek Mike. But anyway, I digress. . No, we&#8217;re too, it&#8217;s<br />all good. . No, and I, I think that&#8217;s another thing I&#8217;ve learned from y&#8217;all too, is like, hey, we can be,<br />this can be a subject that we get kinda tense about because we don&#8217;t know all the answers.<br />What I got from you, Sarah, was uh, you took, I think you took a big, big load of perfectionism,<br />expectation, worry, fear of people and release them to say, care about it. Get your team. Yes.<br />Like that&#8217;s the two I got when you&#8217;re looking at design. And that doesn&#8217;t mean just the design<br />team. That means the people who are out there publishing content on the website too.</p>



<p>Absolutely. You know, lean on your team and don&#8217;t exclude anybody. Include everybody in this<br />conversation and it matters. Anything else, Sarah, on design and creativity you wanted to<br />share? .<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah, I mean, I, I&#8217;ll echo I think a lot of what we&#8217;ve already talked about, but if you<br />could just, [00:47:00] at the end of the day, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s about putting yourself in those folks&#8217; shoes.<br />And if, I think a great place to do that is by talking to those people, testing those people. Um, I, I<br />think that&#8217;s something that we, we don&#8217;t, you know, as a, um, a, a world , uh, probably do<br />enough of, um, and so empathy, empathy, empathy, just, you know, do the right thing, um, and,<br />and make it a value that you actually follow through with.<br />Cory Miller: Um, yep. Okay. I know you&#8217;re gonna have more to this chair. Thank you for sharing<br />the creativity. I think those are powerful messages that can release and really free people up to<br />use that creativity, use that, those innovative skills in such a really cool way. Yeah. Okay. So we<br />talked about leadership, talked about creativity and design.<br />Now let&#8217;s talk about the nuts and bolts, how this stuff works. Like [00:48:00] Chris. Uh, so you&#8217;re<br />back in, I know you work a lot with your team, uh, Sarah&#8217;s team, Mike&#8217;s team, um, in delivering<br />to the client. Um, when we talk about development, and you, you&#8217;ve, you&#8217;ve surprised me a<br />couple times on this Bec and, but it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s something that we just see.<br />It&#8217;s cuz you care about the subject, you know, you care about this work, but you&#8217;ve been able to<br />give some really good perspective too. But when we kind of venture into this third phase for<br />subject about accessibility, it&#8217;s the technical side. What sticks out to you? Uh, I always start with<br />you.<br />Chris Kindred: You&#8217;ve gotta make it part of your culture.<br />And in order to do that, that means that when you are hiring, you&#8217;ve gotta actually be looking to<br />make sure that you&#8217;re hiring people that believe the same. And, uh, it&#8217;s very difficult to always<br />create great accessible things if the, the people you&#8217;re looking at to bring on board don&#8217;t believe<br />the same thing.<br />[00:49:00] So it starts kind of there. It starts with making sure you get the right people in the right<br />seats and, and that, uh, piece of it. Um, after that there&#8217;s a little bit of understanding why, why<br />we&#8217;re doing this. And, um, one of the things that I like to kind of explain is that accessibility over<br />time has become the norm for, for so many places.<br />Um, think about it as, uh, curb cutouts right at crosswalks. Um, it&#8217;s so that it&#8217;s easier for<br />wheelchairs to get up onto the sidewalk. And, and it&#8217;s such a normal thing to see now. Um,<br />when you&#8217;re getting ready to cross the street and you hit the, the walk button, when it changes,<br />it makes a noise. Well, it&#8217;s because people found out, hey, we need to make this more<br />accessible for other people.<br />And, and they need to be able to get from one side of the street to the other. [00:50:00] And it, it,<br />it just, it, it becomes part of your everyday interaction and it becomes so normal that it, it, it just<br />becomes part of what you do. The same applies building a website. The same applies for the<br />technical side of these things.<br />When you&#8217;re building a form, you just, it, it, it is, it, it has to be ingrained in your culture that<br />that&#8217;s the normal way of doing that. You build it as an accessible form and you don&#8217;t cut corners.<br />Where, um, Somebody that&#8217;s not building it accessible or maybe somebody that doesn&#8217;t know or<br />is ignorant of how to build it accessible.<br />Um, would, would be doing that. You know, um, braille is another great example of having like a<br />braille inside a building trying to find where a, um, a, a hotel room is or an office is, that kind of<br />thing. You, it becomes normal and therefore you start [00:51:00] implementing it. You come to<br />expect it. And that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a big<br />piece.<br />Mike Klanac: I, I just wanna jump in there, Chris, cause I think. The part that ties this all<br />together is the fact that those items you mentioned, which were initially built for accessible<br />purposes, how, how many other benefits have they shown to perhaps people with different<br />forms of acce, uh, disability or just really anyone like a curb cutout has, su has become a<br />convenience.<br />Um, the noise. I often just can hear that and it becomes a benefit to my experience not being a<br />disabled person. Um, and, and so those, those changes have, have become innovations for all<br />of us.</p>



<p>Chris Kindred: You, you mentioned a really good point there. Um, there&#8217;s different levels of, uh,<br />disability, let&#8217;s say. Yes. Um, you, you&#8217;ve got permanent disabilities, which are, are people that,<br />that aren&#8217;t going to get over whatever disability they have.<br />Mm-hmm. . And, and you also have, [00:52:00] uh, you know, that&#8217;s, uh, Loss of limb kind of<br />thing. Maybe not being able to type, not being able to hear, not being able to see those kinds of<br />things. Uh, you also have a concept of a temporary disability.<br />Uh, we, we&#8217;ve<br />all experience things like getting your eyes dilated and not being able to look at a website, uh,<br />that, that can really mess with your mind a little bit.<br />If, if a website has all the text way too close together, say you need to call your, uh, eye doctor<br />right after you left and you pull up their website on your phone and you can&#8217;t find the phone<br />number because you, your eyes are dilated. Um, yeah. Now, and there there&#8217;s also this concept<br />of situational disability.<br />Um, very similar. But, uh, say you&#8217;re sitting next to your four-year-old and on the couch and<br />you&#8217;re flipping through videos on your phone and you have the volume off cuz you don&#8217;t know<br />what somebody&#8217;s gonna say and you don&#8217;t want your four year old to hear it. Um, You know that<br />that&#8217;s another [00:53:00] case of an opportunity, that if they have transcripts on that video, all of<br />a sudden, you know what they&#8217;re talking about without having to maybe have your four year old<br />say a word they shouldn&#8217;t.<br />Um, you know, it, the, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s this other concept a, around situational disabilities, um,<br />that I, it kind of hits home with me in particular because, um, there&#8217;s this level of like your<br />emotional state when you&#8217;re looking at a website, um, maybe your, your ability to actually have<br />like all the right, be in the right state of mind when you&#8217;re going to a, a website.<br />And it, uh, it, my, my daughter was born with a congenital heart defect. She was life flighted from<br />the hospital three days after she was born to a hospital five hours away.<br />Um,<br />My wife went with [00:54:00] her on, on the life flight, and we were extremely thankful she was<br />able to, but uh, here we are. I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m five hours away.<br />I&#8217;m getting ready to get in the car. There was a blizzard that night. There, there was just all kinds<br />of things going on, and I&#8217;ve gotta try to figure out how to get to this hospital and how to, um, find<br />my family, my newborn baby, all of this stuff. Uh, yeah. Eric Meyer does a very good talk on this.<br />Um, I, I think it was a, a list of part talk some, something like that.<br />Um, but it, it is a, a, a, it, it specifically talks about, uh, I think designing in a crisis or designing<br />for crisis. And, you know, if, if your mind&#8217;s not where it needs to be to read the information on a<br />website and you&#8217;re looking for how to get to an emergency room from the airport, And [00:55:00]<br />you are scrolling through a website.<br />I, I know websites pretty well. I&#8217;ve been reading websites my whole life, and I know that normally<br />there&#8217;s an address in the bottom left or right side of most websites. But if you&#8217;re trying to do that<br />looking through tiers, it&#8217;s much more difficult. And so there&#8217;s this level of, um, just because the,<br />there&#8217;s this level of morality that we talked about before, it&#8217;s the right thing to do.<br />But also it, it&#8217;s, it, it doesn&#8217;t, it, it can apply to anybody at any point in time. And you want to<br />make sure you&#8217;re being inclusive of all of those potential situations, especially when it&#8217;s, um, you<br />know, good or, or bad or, you know, education has alerts and all kinds of, there&#8217;s just, it, it<br />permeates through the entire industry.<br />Cory Miller: So before I come back to, to you, Chris, because I want you to put, uh, what the<br />question I&#8217;ll ask when I digress for a second with Sarah [00:56:00] is, uh, think about the<br />technical person on the other side in that seat and the challenges they have. But, you know,<br />Sarah, you, you do design. You know, you think about from the purpose of a website.<br />If I&#8217;m an er, I mean, Chris, you just said a hundred percent of people on that website, what do<br />they want to know? I wanna get to that building as fast as humanly possible. So Sarah, from a<br />pure design ux ui, that&#8217;s the purpose of a website. Is it not? Like, give people to the thing you<br />and your situational, uh, uh, experience.<br />Chris made me think. That&#8217;s, let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s take aside for a second. Accessibility. That&#8217;s just what<br />you wanna do with the website. Like absolutely. How do I, they are hunting, how do I put it right<br />in front of them? You know what I&#8217;m saying? Like from the design side .<br />Sarah Gless: Yes. Like know your audiences, [00:57:00] all of them prioritize, you know, and,<br />and ensure that you&#8217;re talking to them, you&#8217;re listening to them, you&#8217;re testing that work, and you</p>



<p>know that it&#8217;s going to be there in, in a variety of situations.<br />It&#8217;s not just about slapping your brand on a website. It&#8217;s about ensuring that that experience is<br />meeting users where they&#8217;re at and serving their needs and, and, um, understanding the tests<br />they need to complete and, and designing to that. Um,<br />Cory Miller: like I go back to what you said, and this is reverberating now, and how deep, well,<br />what you said earlier is good accessibility is good design, and you go.<br />I mean, we can take it aside, all of this and just go, that&#8217;s the purpose. You wanna get people to<br />the thing they need to do. You want to empathize, use the word you used earlier, Sarah too, is<br />like, empathize. What are they trying to get done? Okay. I&#8217;m a, whatever the organization, Chris,<br />you just laid it out.<br />It&#8217;s blindingly obvious, the location. Think about that for restaurants. [00:58:00] Think about that<br />for any, any business, any organization, nonprofits, like, they come to you by the way, and<br />they&#8217;re looking for something and as fast and efficiently as you can get that to &#8217;em. So I go back<br />to your comment now, it&#8217;s even more deeper.<br />It&#8217;s like good accessibility is a good design because it&#8217;s about the action you&#8217;re trying to help that<br />person get to, right?<br />Sarah Gless: Absolutely. Yeah.</p>



<p>Chris Kindred: I, I would even take it a step further and say, good acceptability is usability. Mm-<br />hmm. Uh, it,</p>



<p>it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s not just the design, but. It, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s the total package of it.<br />It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s making sure that that button, when it&#8217;s clicked, you know, it was clicked and that it&#8217;s not<br />going to do something unexpected. You know, taking, taking it back to a technical point of view,<br />you know, making sure to know how to make sure a screen reader is announcing that button<br />that it was clicked um, making sure that, uh, the, the person knew what that button button<br />[00:59:00] was going to do and not just say, click here. You know, that making it clear<br />that<br />that&#8217;s what was going to happen when that button was clicked is a key aspect to it.<br />Cory Miller: So, Mike, I just go back down. Sorry. Go ahead, Sarah.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah, I was just gonna go back to like what Mike said earlier about like, there&#8217;s<br />also like kind of these like side effects that are good side effects when you, when you design,<br />um, um, whatever the experience is, whether it&#8217;s a curb or a website, um, to be accessible, you<br />have all these.<br />Additional benefits for folks that may not have disabilities. So like in the case of the, um, the,<br />you know, the button to call the ER is not visible. Well, what if you designed it to be, well, I bet<br />you&#8217;re gonna pick up not just ensuring that like it&#8217;s accessible, but also a lot of users who may<br />not have disabilities, um, still struggle to find things on websites.<br />So like, you know, they&#8217;ll be able to get their tasks done. Um, professor too, I know it&#8217;s a very<br />hyper [01:00:00] specific example, but, but it does help provide like context, this bigger idea,<br />right?<br />Cory Miller: Hey Sarah, I think no, it&#8217;s a like proving you all&#8217;s point is the it. Let&#8217;s add another<br />one, Mike, to the first part you said, let&#8217;s add another one if, if you only use accessibility as to<br />make your site the best converting, most efficient tool for communicating to your customers.<br />We just like backed into, uh, because you, we&#8217;ve all gone back to these, like the usability thing.<br />If you&#8217;re forced to look at like, okay, let&#8217;s pull up JAWS or whatever tools you all use and<br />recommend for your clients, and let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s go at it from that perspective. You&#8217;ve empathized with<br />the customer and you think if we just put it under marketing or sales, I go, this is the exercise<br />most organizations should be doing.<br />Because you&#8217;re gonna go to the level and you&#8217;re gonna have to think about, I&#8217;m just talking the<br />business case. Okay? Every website [01:01:00] needs to spur an action, like we&#8217;re trying to lead<br />them to something. It could be a sale, it could be the address of the emergency room, it could<br />be whatever it is. I just go from the business case, Mike, like, this is an exercise that all of us<br />should be doing.<br />Because if you&#8217;re in Chris&#8217;s situation, you&#8217;re like, isn&#8217;t it clear? Everybody, everybody in the room<br />know what the key thing here is we&#8217;re trying to get people to the emergency room physically.<br />That informs design, it informs technical, but. Here&#8217;s another business case we should add.<br />Mike Klanac: Absolutely. Yeah, and it&#8217;s really inspiring to like see the conversation.</p>



<p>I think. As an entire, in the, across the world, evolve from being one where like the, the, the talk<br />that, that Chris just provided it, it probably used to have just been about like how to use like alt<br />tags. Like 10 years ago it would&#8217;ve been like, how do we tag content? And now it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s crossed<br />into like more of a phil philosophical understanding that, hey, this is, this is, um, this is [01:02:00]<br />good business.<br />This is a usability opportunity, this is a chance to empathize with our users. This is a chance to,<br />um, improve customer and user journeys and, and, uh, make it easier for you to check out or to<br />get the information that you need. Um, so it&#8217;s, I just am it, it, I, I&#8217;m, I like that the dots are starting<br />to be connected and that this conversation has changed from just like a very sort of niche<br />technical, how do I.<br />Do these things that I have to do, because otherwise I&#8217;m gonna get in trouble to look at all of this<br />opportunity that we have to incorporate this thinking to better serve our audience that affects,<br />that, improves our business and makes everybody happier. I mean, uh, it connects a lot of dots.<br />Cory Miller: It&#8217;s cool. I, I&#8217;m not exaggerating, but maybe we should rename this panel to how to<br />build a successful website.<br />Yeah. , I mean, I know I&#8217;m exaggerating a little bit, but I go, like, when you were talking through<br />that, Sarah, I thought [01:03:00] that is a focusing feature. It makes us ask the question, what&#8217;s<br />this all about? What are we trying to do? Well, if we can hit it in all these scenarios, we&#8217;ve<br />crystal, we&#8217;ve used it as an exercise honestly, to crystallize what we&#8217;re trying to get from it and<br />pave the way, like that&#8217;s the purpose of website, right?<br />Mm-hmm. , so Absolutely. Okay. I&#8217;m preaching the choir, but I&#8217;m just hearing what you&#8217;re saying<br />and going, yeah. We should. Totally. I think the other title is it&#8217;s not a problem, it&#8217;s an opportunity,<br />you know? Yeah. Okay. Chris, I have veered all the way, but I think it&#8217;s been good. We need this<br />out in the world. We need people to hear these things and appreciate you all sharing so<br />authentically with this.<br />So, back to the question, Chris, I&#8217;m gonna get back to you. So from a technical standpoint,<br />there&#8217;s, on your clients, you&#8217;ve, you&#8217;ve talked to a number, I mean number of teams in the<br />technical side. And you know, part of my question here is trying to help the leaders listening to<br />other people, the other parts of this team understand [01:04:00] there are issues like Sarah did<br />for design that designers have, there&#8217;s somewhere technical.<br />What are the things that stick out to you, you know, those challenges people the technical side<br />has when they&#8217;re working on this particular subject of accessibility?<br />Chris Kindred: Uh, I, I would say it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s keeping up with the changes as they come. Um,<br />that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s one of the big ones. Uh, you know, there, there are different requirements.<br />Uh, those, there&#8217;s more stringent requirements when it comes to WIC ag, which is if, if you&#8217;re a<br />front-end developer and, and backend developers to, uh, knowing what the requirements are to<br />hit certain levels, depending on kind of going back into the legal side of it, you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re certain<br />you&#8217;re gonna be required to hit a certain level of accessibility.<br />And knowing what those are and how they change over time is a big piece of it. And, uh,<br />[01:05:00] at, at Modern Tribe, we really lean a lot on our front end developers for keeping up<br />with that. But also we communicate as a whole and, and we make sure that everybody&#8217;s, you<br />know, doing code reviews for each other and, and that kind of thing to make sure that, uh, if, if<br />there is an accessibility, um, Item that we address it before it goes out, uh, and that, uh, those<br />kinds of things.<br />So it, it, I would say the, the biggest issue is trying to just stay relevant with those, um,<br />accessibility changes. Every time a browser comes out with something new, you&#8217;ve gotta kind of<br />go back and look at it and see if it changed the way you need to implement something based<br />upon those accessibility requirements.<br />So, yeah.<br />Cory Miller: So from, so from the technical side, there&#8217;s how, how any general guidance you&#8217;d<br />give for how to kind of stay touched. It seemed to [01:06:00] me, you know, from a team<br />standpoint is we just regularly have the discuss. Like the topic comes up regularly enough,<br />however that is, but those developers that want to contribute, technical people that want to<br />contribute to it.<br />Any, any thoughts there about how they could try to keep up and places to go?</p>



<p>Chris Kindred: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, so there&#8217;s, we, we use a lot of different tools and,<br />and that kind of thing, but you can always go to the WAC website and, and that&#8217;s going to tell<br />you exactly what you need to hit and, and how to perform certain actions in an accessible way.<br />Uh, but, but there&#8217;s also some other things out there. Um, uh, I A A P certifications, uh, the, this<br />is a, um, it, it&#8217;s a, uh, they offer a web accessibility certification that you can get and, uh, it, it<br />teaches you a, about web accessibility, and you [01:07:00] can go through the whole, whole<br />process there and, uh, you know, There&#8217;s no better way to prove that accessibility&#8217;s serious to<br />you than getting some kind of certification For sure.<br />Um, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s not, uh, an easy thing to do. There. There are other certifications out there too. Um,<br />that&#8217;s just the first one that came to my mind. But, uh, th those types of certifications are, are<br />nice to be able to go out and do and, and learn. Um, and if you&#8217;re making it part of your culture,<br />then you&#8217;re always talking about it.<br />It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s like, like I said, it&#8217;s part of those code reviews. Um, if, if, if I&#8217;m reviewing somebody&#8217;s<br />code and I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m seeing it, I&#8217;m learning too. If they implemented something that I may not have<br />been aware of yet, uh, that, that&#8217;s a big piece as well. So mm-hmm. that, that being able to<br />communicate back and forth about &#8217;em, uh, is, is also super beneficial.<br />Cory Miller: Mike, did you have something to add? probably jumped the gun<br />Mike Klanac: a little bit. I, I [01:08:00] think I was going to start to mention tooling a little and its<br />role in this and, and Chris hit it a, a touch there. But, um, yeah, I mean this is a, this is a, a open<br />conversation. So, you know, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s something that it, you have to kind of revisit periodically.<br />And the, the tooling, one of the things that it does besides kind of educate you and their, their<br />job is to stay current on creating a system of scans that, um, enforces certain standards. Um, it,<br />it, it allows you to kind of revisit it on a regular basis, uh, and that there is some. There&#8217;s a huge<br />role for that, right?<br />Like it no, no human can actually stay on top of all of the changes at all times. The, that<br />provides some nice rails. And yeah, as we get into this, perhaps this last section in a moment<br />where we talk about the, the, the content publishing or the sort of the, the end user role in<br />[01:09:00] accessibility, um, I think that tooling is a, a key<br />Cory Miller: part of that as well.<br />Okay. So I want to ask Chris one more thing. So this whole banner is accessibility for sure, but<br />WordPress accessibility, I think that&#8217;s the two parts of this why I asked you all to do this<br />particular topic because, you know, accessibility, but you also know the nuances with<br />WordPress like you&#8217;re experts.<br />Travis has been around for a very long time doing some really cool stuff with WordPress forever.<br />So, uh, Chris, my question is now accessibility with WordPress. Things that come out, stand out<br />with you with this amazing open source software that we love that&#8217;s used around the globe and<br />it&#8217;s great solutions for clients.<br />Um, what things stick out there with WordPress accessibility particularly?<br />Chris Kindred: Uh, well, well first open source software. It, it is always, um, it, people are<br />always talking about accessibility. If you go into the, the WordPress Slack, you can see people<br />trying [01:10:00] to focus on accessibility and try to get accessibility into, uh, everything.<br />Uh, you know, I guess it was two or three years, Gutenberg did a big accessibility audit on all<br />the blocks, and that was really important for WordPress to be doing to help move the editor itself<br />forward and make it more accessible for content editors. Um, but as Gutenberg&#8217;s matured and,<br />and become the block editor, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s become everybody&#8217;s focus.<br />There&#8217;s this new opportunity and, and I think that, uh, As we continue to implement these<br />accessible designs that our, our amazing designers have put together and, and our developers<br />have gone in and, and put a lot of work behind the templates and building out the header and<br />the footer and, and everything, there&#8217;s this, uh, there&#8217;s this content piece that is going to have to<br />be implemented and most of the time that&#8217;s by the client.<br />And [01:11:00] the, the best way to help them would be by creating plugins that test the<br />accessibility before it&#8217;s ever even published. And being able to interface with a service that<br />allows you to check that and give feedback in a meaningful way to a publisher and being able to<br />tell them, this is inaccessible and here is why.<br />Because that&#8217;s a key point too, making sure they know why, so they don&#8217;t always have to fix it<br />every time they do it. Um, and, and being able to flag that the way that editor works now</p>



<p>compared to way it worked with the classic editor. It, it gives you so many more opportunities for<br />that kind of, um, benefit.<br />So, so creating a, a plugin, you know, it, it&#8217;s something that I, I know a few places have tried to<br />create these, and, and there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s an opportunity to be able to, to do that. And I, I really, I&#8217;m<br />looking forward to, [01:12:00] uh, potentially participating and creating a plugin that can handle<br />that kind of thing. Um, you know, flagging it, uh, checking it from the front, inside, all of those<br />kinds of things for a user, um, that, that would be a, a huge benefit to the community as a whole<br />and, and to content creators.<br />Cory Miller: I, I think you pointed at something that I often don&#8217;t, I, I kind of gloss over, but the<br />fact that there&#8217;s so many people, the power of WordPress is so many people collaborating and<br />caring about this. Yes. This isn&#8217;t a new thing to WordPress. It&#8217;s what I. It&#8217;s, we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re<br />imperfect, but as a community. And the core software has a very passion for diversity, equity,<br />inclusion in that conversation has been championed by people like you and others in the<br />community to make sure WordPress is always accessible.<br />But having said that, there&#8217;s still things, there&#8217;s still things that we need to account for. And you<br />brought those up as like, well, we did in the discussions. It&#8217;s like you can do all the [01:13:00]<br />front end work and then you&#8217;re down to the person that just hasn&#8217;t had the opportunity to be<br />trained a little bit.<br />And the block editor, there are things that need, that are being discussed actively and worked<br />on in the community to need to be done to ensure the other part of this. We got the great first<br />site, but now, okay, we&#8217;re turning over and I, I think it was, Sarah mentioned one of the previous<br />conversations is one, you know, a blog post.<br />Could break the accessibility. You know, one thing that would just because you have so much<br />power, I mean, it&#8217;s the beauty of Good Berg and the block editor, you have so much opportunity<br />there, . You also have an opportunity to kind of go into and break your, all your good work<br />you&#8217;ve done to try to be accessible.<br />Okay. Anything else on technical? And then I wanna divide, dive in with the remain time and<br />thank you all for your time and sharing your expertise so openly. Um, the next section, just about<br />that side of this whole thing is like the other part of the team that might not be in some of the<br />core conversations but are executing, doing the work.<br />[01:14:00] Anything else? Chris, though, before we shift gears into that?<br />Chris Kindred: Uh, technical is such a code dependent thing that it could get. I, I could drown<br />you in what Aria labels mean and why and why not. But you know, the fact is if you&#8217;ve put a<br />culture in place around accessibility, then. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s something that your devs are going to be able<br />to help you with.<br />And, uh, it, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just part of, part of the process.<br />Cory Miller: I&#8217;ve heard. I&#8217;ve, I think another theme in all this is like, if you&#8217;re a designer,<br />developer on the team in some way, uh, this is your webinar to go back if you need help in<br />reinforcements, saying, Hey, we need to embrace this. Um, because I know so many talented<br />designer developers, good hearts, wanna do the right thing, need the resources, you know?<br />Yeah. Need that collaboration.<br />Sarah Gless: Be champions of, yeah. [01:15:00] Making sure this, this is a conversation. Um,<br />and, and feel empowered to like, Take that upwards towards, towards leadership.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. And share this link afterwards so they Yeah. Can come in here us talk about<br />the amazing opportunity they have here. Yeah. Okay.<br />Thanks Chris. All right. So final section is just this part. You&#8217;ve done all the fronting work, you do<br />care, you&#8217;re doing all the efforts, but then there&#8217;s this situation you already mentioned that they<br />could break it on that particular page because of the power of some of the word and and the<br />lack of the resources and training and guidance.<br />So when we get to this side, the client publishing of all this, who wants to share, what do you got<br />locked and loaded? I wanna just kind of put it here. Cause I think this is another team<br />collaboration of like probably people that are oftentimes overlooked, blamed sometimes, and<br />just don&#8217;t have this side of it that we need to be thinking about from leadership all the way down<br />through the organiz.<br />Mike Klanac: [01:16:00] Yeah, this is a, a really important part of it that oftentimes gets<br />overlooked. Um, and that is just to be really clear, it&#8217;s that after these tools have been created, a</p>



<p>lot of accessibility thinking has gone into them, and then they are delivered to, um, you know, a,<br />a content publisher to, to maintain and to use for, for possibly up to five years.<br />Um, you&#8217;re at this key point where as a, maybe an agency partner supporting someone, like<br />you&#8217;re putting a lot of that power into their hands now to pick up that, that, that torch and<br />continue to run with it. Um, and there&#8217;s a really unfortunate metaphor here, which is, you know,<br />MySpace, you know, we can all recall MySpace.<br />It was really great. No longer exists today. They were very well intended. And at some point it<br />went from being this nice. Tidy page with a profile to music blaring and the thousands of like<br />scrolling pages and things [01:17:00] jumping out all over. And that&#8217;s because there was not<br />enough rails put into place for content publishers to be success successful for the long haul<br />there.<br />So we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve sort of come to the realization, and this is kind of part of like ergonomic thinking<br />and you know, you have to set these content publishers up for success. And the way that you<br />do that is not only in how you&#8217;re architecting the system, the publishing environment, um, to give<br />instruction, to make it just like intuitive and easy to use and sort of like heuristic and you can<br />kind of just, you can figure it out.<br />It&#8217;s simple. Um, but like training them on the idea of publishing accessible content because we,<br />no matter how many guardrails we put into place, if you&#8217;re not thinking about it, you will<br />eventually break the system by putting in. You know, content that is not accessible. Uh, so we<br />try to incorporate that into our training [01:18:00] process.<br />Um, and, and let, let be pretty candid upfront to say, you&#8217;ve got a, a wonderfully accessible site<br />right now. It won&#8217;t be this way if you put in concerning content with, you know, strange things<br />that, that perhaps like in the moment feel really exciting, but you know, they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re not<br />gonna, they&#8217;re not gonna work from an accessibility standpoint.<br />It&#8217;s something you need to continue to think about. Um,<br />Cory Miller: I mean, this goes back, that&#8217;s first part of it. Yeah. This goes back to your, your part<br />and two is the leader and the people making the decisions need to think about all of this that,<br />okay. Part one is just getting the infrastructure, the, the base. Part two is people have to operate<br />within that base and we need to be considerate and give ample resource.<br />To to hear because all of our good intentions could go away. . Yeah. When, when inadvertently<br />someone who does care, [01:19:00] makes a, makes a decision that affects it. So putting that<br />into the process is, is huge. And I think I&#8217;ve heard variously E three talk about the training and<br />the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of your knowledge about how these things operate, um,<br />isn&#8217;t a very important part of all of this.<br />Um, yes sir. Chris, you mentioned tooling or I think Mike got into tooling too earlier. So that<br />seems to be one part, as I&#8217;ve talked to you all, part of this is like just proper tooling to do some<br />as much as we can, as this continues to evolve and change with browsers and different<br />technology and stuff.<br />But, so can you talk to me a little bit about the tooling side?<br />Chris Kindred: Yeah. Uh, so. Tools we use, um, we use Site Improve Dubbo. Um, some of<br />those that what they&#8217;ll do is they&#8217;ll actually go out and put your, put the URL in there and it will<br />scrape your site and tell you what kind of, um, accessibility issues come up.[01:20:00]<br />Uh, they&#8217;re, they&#8217;re great tools that, that kind of thing helps a lot. And, and you can automate<br />that process to run weekly, daily, monthly, however often you want it to. Uh, and, and that&#8217;s a<br />really great check, but I, I really feel like you should be doing something before that. And, and<br />the easiest way to do that is by installing a browser extension on, you know, if you&#8217;re using<br />Chrome, Chrome has ax and you can install AX on your, on your browser, and then you can go<br />pull up your page and it&#8217;s gonna tell you the same stuff, but you&#8217;re just gonna catch it before<br />somebody else did.<br />You know, make it part of your publishing process that you publish a page. Go pull up X on, on<br />the front end and make sure that there&#8217;s not a glaring problem. Um, when you&#8217;re dealing with<br />Go ahead.<br />Sarah Gless: Go ahead. I was just gonna say even, even before that, um, too, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s the<br />training aspect that, that we mentioned earlier.<br />Um, you know, from [01:21:00] a kind of content side of things, established guidelines and, and<br />make sure that they&#8217;re accessible by everyone on your team that&#8217;s creating content and that</p>



<p>they&#8217;re updated regularly, um, as things change and evolve with, uh, within the accessibility<br />world. Um, so people are, are making good content from the start.<br />So we, we looked at it a little bit backwards, but I I, I like that because it, yeah, it kinda leads<br />back to that, that person,<br />Cory Miller: the two sides are seems like tools and training the two sides of the airplane, you<br />know? Um, so the,<br />Chris Kindred: there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s one more piece that I wanna mention is that you can always fix<br />what&#8217;s in the editor.<br />It&#8217;s not, you didn&#8217;t just destroy your site forever because you posted one piece of content that<br />was, uh, that had an accessibility problem, evaluate it, go back in and fix it. It&#8217;s not the, the<br />whole point is being aware. Yeah. It&#8217;s when you didn&#8217;t go back and fix it. It&#8217;s [01:22:00] knowing<br />it was there and ignoring it.<br />Those kinds of things that will really get you going along a<br />bad path,<br />Mike Klanac: right. I mean, people are gonna make mistakes. In fact, I&#8217;m assuming at some<br />point someone will look back at this webinar and think they said something incorrect. Um, the<br />point is that we care and we&#8217;re we&#8217;re trying to do the right thing.<br />Um, and, and so I think you&#8217;re right, Chris, like going back, if someone identifies an issue, you<br />can fix it. I mean, that&#8217;s the best thing about this is nothing set in stone here forever.<br />Cory Miller: That is the beauty of the web. I used to be in new newspapers, and when you<br />printed a mistake, it went out . I can&#8217;t imagine we had this opportunity to make it, to fix it.<br />Go back and fix it. Um, well, I, I like that. Any other thoughts on the training and tooling side?<br />Um, making sure, you know, I, I assume all this when you&#8217;re, we&#8217;re talking about like checklists<br />and workflows, like making [01:23:00] sure this is things you do with clients. Like, Hey, there&#8217;s<br />somebody in, not in this meeting and hasn&#8217;t been privy to all this<br />Here you go. Here&#8217;s some basic stuff to look at. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s style sheets. I don&#8217;t know if<br />that&#8217;s like, earlier you talk, you know, Sarah, about like the colors of your logo and then how<br />does that transit translate accessibly And, uh, Chris again, any, anything like that you think as<br />you&#8217;re, you&#8217;ve been working with clients for a long time with this particular thing.<br />What you do that kind of makes the difference for someone you know, is, are there style guides?<br />Are there. Typical things they do. How do you approach this from alus perspective on that<br />training? Like, do you build in like, you know, um, training with a team or I, you know, anything<br />on that regard?<br />Mike Klanac: I, I could probably add one more thing, which is that we, you know, there&#8217;s a lot of<br />intention in the, in the design and the construction of content, so I, if you do that right, [01:24:00]<br />the, the publishers experie.<br />Is pretty like straightforward. It&#8217;s about the quality of the content and the messaging and less the<br />construction of it, and therefore like there&#8217;s less opportunity to get creative at that point. You&#8217;re,<br />you&#8217;re sort of like focused on like what the message, the content&#8217;s trying to convey is, and not<br />so much how the looks and where it positions or if you do have some editorial power at that<br />point.<br />It&#8217;s from a predetermined set of, of configuration. So you&#8217;re like putting the content in and<br />flipping levers and hitting buttons from pre-approved standards that everyone was agreed, uh, in<br />agreement on and happened to be accessible. Um, so if that, that work upfront has been done<br />well, those are some of those guardrails and I, I think that that can, that can help continue<br />success into the future.<br />Chris Kindred: That&#8217;s where Gutenberg has made things so much easier [01:25:00] for, for us.<br />We can go in and create patterns and build out those patterns to be accessible and, and meet a<br />certain, um, layout that sales teams provided the front end to, to be able to do. And, and so<br />we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve said, okay, here&#8217;s, here&#8217;s a pattern you can use that we&#8217;ve already vetted as an<br />accessible pattern, and, and you don&#8217;t have to worry about it.<br />If you use this pattern, you&#8217;re good. And then you can use the next pattern. You&#8217;re good, and,<br />and you can kinda work your way down the page that way. And it, it makes things better for the<br />end user. And, you know, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s everybody&#8217;s goal here. How can we do what&#8217;s best for the<br />end user using WordPress to publish and then in turn their users<br />coming to the website.<br />Cory Miller: All right. Anything else on that? And before we do some takeaways,</p>



<p>Mike Klanac: I think that pretty much covers it.<br />Cory Miller: This has been like, I think it&#8217;s [01:26:00] beyond primer. What this is is helping one,<br />somebody that does want to care, that cares, takes some meaningful steps about holistically<br />embracing this. Um, and with really solid business and human reasons attached. And I think<br />part of this that I was surprised a little bit is just the thinking when we got into accessibility.<br />It&#8217;s like actually you can, you can make money doing the good thing, doing the right thing. Um,<br />Maybe more money because we&#8217;ve talked about the one in 6, 1, 1 in four in America in<br />particular. But, and, and then the situational that you did, Chris, permanent, situational,<br />temporary Mike, really sharing, um, the, that, that whole case to help us think about that.<br />Um, so I, I love it. And I think the big headline is don&#8217;t look at this as a problem. Look at this as<br />an opportunity. And I think you all have masterfully shared some really compelling, [01:27:00]<br />you can&#8217;t look away from reasons why this should be like the center of, not just the project, not<br />just the website Pro, but culturally as a, as an organization, how we&#8217;re gonna be in the world.<br />And I think it&#8217;s pretty, pretty awesome. Anything we missed? Anything you wanna share? Um,<br />that we didn&#8217;t touch?<br />Mike Klanac: I&#8217;ll just like, my final thought on this was, first of all, again, thank you Corey, for, for<br />recording this. I, I like the opportunity to sometimes approach these topics from a new angle<br />and, and specifically as it relates to accessibility.<br />There&#8217;s been a lot of talks and accessibility and a lot of times they do get pretty in the weeds.<br />Um, because that&#8217;s an important part of this is understanding the weeds and the, the specifics.<br />Um, but what I was, what really drew me to this conversation was the ability to take a step back<br />and, and think about, uh, this topic more holistically as it relates across all the layers of culture<br />and business.<br />Um, both like at a, working with an agency partner, but in your own organization and how doing<br />that, [01:28:00] um, can ultimately bring you a lot of success. So I appreciated the new angle on<br />it.<br />Cory Miller: Sarah, Chris, any any save takeaways or thought.<br />Sarah Gless: Yeah, I think like my, my biggest kind of takeaways are how critical it is for, um,<br />you know, organizations to truly like, resource for this.<br />Don&#8217;t, you know, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s kind of that idea of like, show don&#8217;t tell, like make it part of your values.<br />Sure. But then show it, right? And, and, and put resources towards it. I think that, um, is a<br />critical step in making sure this is truly valued, um, at your organization and that you&#8217;re<br />connecting with your, your audiences.<br />Chris Kindred: Uh, I, I really agree. Uh, I, I agree with everything that&#8217;s been said, but you<br />know, I, I think Mike talking along the points of, there&#8217;s a bunch of talks out there about<br />accessibility from a technical point of view, [01:29:00] from, uh, how to implement and, and<br />those kinds of things. But I, I think one of the places that struggles the most is, um,<br />Organizations understanding that it costs a lot of money to do that, and it, it costs a lot of money<br />because they&#8217;ve been going at it the wrong way, and they&#8217;ve been coming at it from kind of an<br />inside out, not an outside in, and not making it like sarason not making it part of your culture.<br />And if you can make it part of every piece, it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s not going to be as expensive as it is if you</p>



<p>have to remediate something once it&#8217;s all done. Uh, so it, it&#8217;s, um, this has been very eye-<br />opening to me to, I don&#8217;t think many people are looking at it from this direction. And I, I, uh, am</p>



<p>am excited to be a part of that.<br />Cory Miller: Well, thank you three for sharing. Uh, so openly, uh, your expertise and experience<br />about [01:30:00] this pretty vital, you know, topic that if we&#8217;re working on the web, it&#8217;s just, In<br />fact, it&#8217;s, we&#8217;ve illustrated some good points, but appreciate you all for being and sharing so<br />openly and taking your time. I know it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a Friday now as we&#8217;re recording, but, um, you have,<br />you have those clients waiting on you.<br />Mike, would you share a little bit how can someone heard what you all have shared and talk,<br />start the conversation with Modern Tribe.<br />Mike Klanac: Yeah, for sure. If anybody has a, a follow on question or wants to talk to Modern<br />Tribe about the work that we do, um, our website is, uh, t r i.be. Um, so you can Google Search<br />Modern Tribe, we pop up around there, uh, the first couple responses.<br />Um, you can also reach me@helloattri.be and um, You know, our goal is to be helpful. So I I<br />really, we do this quite often. If you just have a question, we&#8217;re happy to, to just just talk about</p>



<p>stuff. So it doesn&#8217;t always [01:31:00] have to be reaching out if you have a, a new project<br />opportunity. This is important to us.<br />We like to hear from people and, uh, yeah, build relationships with everyone in the space. So<br />that&#8217;s how you can reach us. And, and thanks again. And Corey, and then, and the work that<br />post status is doing, carrying these topics through, uh, to the audience. It, it&#8217;s really, really<br />important.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. I, I think we&#8217;ve got a couple more to topics to pull back because I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve<br />already identified some ones that I want to go.<br />I go, I think there&#8217;s more here that I kind of hear, heard that like it may be more, more a specific<br />treatment. So, but Sarah, Chris, Mike, thank you for today. Appreciate your time, what you do<br />and WordPress and the larger world, uh, out there. So have a great, uh, rest of your day. Thank<br />you for being here.<br />Cheers.<br />Mike Klanac: Good talk.<br />Cory Miller: Bye.</p>
<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:35:37 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Cory Miller";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"Post Status: Launching a WordPress Product in Public: Session 5";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=148247";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:73:"https://poststatus.com/launching-a-wordpress-product-in-public-session-5/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:86910:"<div class="is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container"><div class="wp-block-post-excerpt"><p class="wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt">In this episode, <a href="https://twitter.com/coreymaass">Corey Maass</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/corymiller303">Cory Miller</a> discuss a range of topics related to the development of their new product <a href="https://crop.express/">Crop.Express</a>,  including the importance of empathy in designing user interfaces, the challenges of marketing and selling products, and the need for developers to collaborate with others and develop non-technical skills. They each share their experiences from working on various projects over the years and offer insights and advice based on these experiences. </p></div>


<div class="wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper"></div>



<p class="yoast-reading-time__wrapper"><span class="yoast-reading-time__icon"></span><span class="yoast-reading-time__spacer"></span><span class="yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class="yoast-reading-time__reading-time">45</span><span class="yoast-reading-time__time-unit"> minutes</span></p>
</div></div>







<p><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript">Transcript</a> ↓</p>



<p>As the development of <a href="https://crop.express/">Crop.Express</a> continues, <a href="https://twitter.com/corymiller303">Cory Miller</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/coreymaass">Corey Maass</a> continue to gain clarity on what is needed for their product to succeed. They discuss features and integration, free vs. paid versions, ensuring compatibility, and more, as they fold in their experience, expertise, and gathered feedback into the future strategy of their product business.</p>



<p><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>



<ul>
<li><strong>Cultivating empathy is important for developers.</strong> It&#8217;s essential to understand the needs of different users, particularly those who are not very tech-savvy or who come from different cultural backgrounds. Empathy helps create products that are more user-friendly and accessible to a broader audience.</li>



<li><strong>Collaboration is crucial for success.</strong> No matter how brilliant a product developer is, they can&#8217;t do everything on their own. They need a team of people with different skills and backgrounds to support them, whether it&#8217;s in terms of design, marketing, or other areas. Building a supportive team requires humility and a willingness to accept feedback and help from others.</li>



<li><strong>Failure is a necessary part of growth.</strong> Many product developers go through a difficult experience where they realize that their work isn&#8217;t as good as they thought it was. This experience can be humbling, but it&#8217;s also an opportunity to learn and grow. It&#8217;s important for developers to be open to feedback, to take risks, and to be willing to try new things, even if it means making mistakes along the way.</li>
</ul>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div>



<h3 class="eplus-wrapper" id="h-mentioned-in-the-show"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png" alt="🔗" class="wp-smiley" /> Mentioned in the show:</h3>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.stickermule.com/">Sticker Mule</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.canva.com/">Canva</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/">Kickstarter</a></li>



<li><a href="https://unsplash.com/">Unsplash</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.stockunlimited.com/">Stock Unlimited</a></li>
</ul>



<h3 class="eplus-wrapper" id="h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png" alt="🐦" class="wp-smiley" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>



<ul class="eplus-wrapper">
<li><a href="http://twitter.com/coreymaass">Corey Maass</a></li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/corymiller303">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>



<li><a href="https://twitter.com/lemonadecode">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>
</ul>



<p class="eplus-wrapper has-background">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png" alt="📝" class="wp-smiley" /><br /><br /><a href="https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">iTunes</a>, <a href="https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">YouTube</a>, <a href="http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Stitcher</a>, <a href="https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Simplecast</a>, or <a href="https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P">RSS</a>. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png" alt="🎧" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<h2 class="eplus-wrapper" id="h-transcript">Transcript</h2>



<h2>Session 5 Corey &amp; Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live</h2>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> [00:00:00] Session five, and I&#8217;m opening the comments on the YouTubes pop out. Hello? </p>



<p>Yeah, I should do this too. Okay. Oh, shouldn&#8217;t&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> the recorded bit, we&#8217;ll do it live.  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Is there any other way? I mean,  </p>



<p>there&#8217;s no&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> one, no other way, but to do it live, at least for Corey and Corey  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Otherwise, there&#8217;s too much to think about. Exactly.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Who wants, who wants, uh, [00:01:00] Perfection. All right. So, hey everybody. This is, uh, Corey and Corey launching a WordPress product in public and session five. And, you know, life happens. And so I&#8217;m actually at a hospital. Uh, my brother, uh, got into the hospital earlier this week and just checking on him.  </p>



<p>He&#8217;s all good, by the way. Um, anyway, so session five.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Um, how was the jello? These are the things that matter. That&#8217;s true.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I have not asked. He&#8217;s not been able to eat, but, um, people are pretty awesome. Yeah. Here taking care of them. Good. Glad to hear it. Um, so first things first, we get our first feedback.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yep, yep.  </p>



<p>So after all of our discussion around, uh, The most important thing being feedback. How do we collect feedback? I built [00:02:00] into the plugin, um, with your guidance, you know, the most direct way, like I went, we could have just linked to a contact form, but I was like, we want this to be frictionless. So there&#8217;s a button right next to every.  </p>



<p>Big call to action that says, um, you know, give us feedback or something. Um, and so, and it worked, a little, a little relieved because I, I wound up doing some crazy email routing to get it all, um, signed up because, you know, one of the things with a new product is you don&#8217;t want to just like, you don&#8217;t want to pr optimize prematurely.  </p>



<p>You don&#8217;t want to pay, start paying for services. And so we are, um, using a number of email forwards from my registrar to a Gmail account to each of us using aliases and various Gmail accounts. So it&#8217;s a little more complicated. But that way [00:03:00] we&#8217;re not spending 16 bucks a month on Google Workspace, you know, before we&#8217;ve.  </p>



<p>Received an email. So, um, but yeah, the, the first email was positive or encouraging, I should say. Um,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> yeah. And basically, do you, do you know him? Do you know&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> who it is? I, I don&#8217;t think so.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I don&#8217;t either. So that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s even better because it&#8217;s somebody that we, um, so I&#8217;ll, I&#8217;ll read it if you, if you want me to, Corey?  </p>



<p>Yeah. Yeah. So I, I don&#8217;t know his name and it looks like his last name, but we&#8217;ll keep that anonymous. Uh, nice start. I would love it if you could work on more fe than featured images. Good affirmation. Wanna be able to do it with just an image on a page. And he gave us a link. Um, this kinda&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> seems link, the link, just so you know, all of the emails will include, i, I auto appended the site, u r url.  </p>



<p>[00:04:00] Gotcha. So we have, um, you know, so we can go and do a little sneaky research.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yeah. Uh, looks like in New Hampshire, by the way, aren&#8217;t&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> you in New Hampshire? I am. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m, uh, or at least the site that it came from. Site that came from,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> yeah. Yeah. Uh, so what sticks out to me is, um, I mean, it&#8217;s one person, but it validates our second step, which is somewhere that can be used outside of the featured image.  </p>



<p>Um, right. And last week we were talking about like, is there an area in the right sidebar somewhere that is, you know, you can drag it there, it&#8217;s still a step like crop it, but like then you can pull it into a Gutenberg block kind of thing. Is what, do you have any thoughts on that? Like, and I&#8217;m trying to remember a conversation from last week too.  </p>



<p>I know you&#8217;re always tinkering too, so.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Right. I, unfortunately I haven&#8217;t been this week. Um, [00:05:00] yeah. I&#8217;ve been work, like you say, life gets in the way and work is part of life, and so, yep. Uh, for those who don&#8217;t know, I, uh, consult on the side or freelance on the side and, and these are the clients I&#8217;m always talking about.  </p>



<p>And so, you know, uh, we have a new design that needs to be implemented this week, so unfortunately side projects get put on, get paused. Yep. Um,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> gotta have something, pay the bills and, um, no, no. I, I just curious cause you always kinda surprise me with something. I happen to mention a circle crop and you&#8217;re like, by the way, I did it.  </p>



<p>I&#8217;m like, okay, . Um, cool. What, uh, I&#8217;m gonna, I haven&#8217;t looked recently, but how many downloads are we or installs are we up to?&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Oh, good question.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I&#8217;m gonna do that right now.  </p>



<p>When I put Crop express, by the way, into the wordpress.org plugins thing. Mm-hmm. , there&#8217;s 1, [00:06:00] 2, 4, 4 things above ours, which is, I&#8217;ll have to follow up with that.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Okay. So, so we still have fewer than 10,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> which, you know, that lags, doesn&#8217;t it? Like they have these, some metrics or something on what displays and so it could be theoretically more, I think.  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yep. And am I logged in? No. Um, and I wanna say that they took away the deeper analytics. Cuz, cuz I also, you know, since we&#8217;re talking about this, I have a strong suspicion that people are also kicking the tires. Um, so I suspect that people are, you know, installing, trying it, you know, to kind of follow along in our journey and experiencing that.  </p>



<p>You know, it is a limited plugin so far, and so we&#8217;re probably uninstalling it. Um, [00:07:00] so for me, like I talked about last week, this is, this is, you know, once you&#8217;re in public, this is a bit of a, um, urgency to start, like filling in those gaps. And I, I kind of personally, I like that like, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a lot of talk in the startup world about an entrepreneurship world in general of like, you know, if you&#8217;re not embarrassed by your first version that you released, then you&#8217;ve released too late.  </p>



<p>And I, I thankfully got over that fear of releasing years ago. But it, you know, I, I think the next step is usually this, which is the, like, okay, I&#8217;m in public, I&#8217;ve told a few people about it. Yes, I&#8217;m starting to collect feedback, but I&#8217;m also, you. I can look at the product and go, oh shoot, it&#8217;s missing this.  </p>



<p>Oh, I forgot about that. You know, so this is where, this is where we, we scramble as long as, uh, I, I can ,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> which is great. Like this is a good stage for, this isn&#8217;t our fa main [00:08:00] focus, but, um, I know, I know you probably have internal pressure for yourself. It&#8217;s like, I wanna get this going.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yeah. I mean the, the sooner we get these extra features in, the sooner we make our first million, you know, and then I don&#8217;t have to worry about client work anymore.  </p>



<p>So, I mean, that&#8217;s exactly, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s the race. The other thing that, you know, I struggle with is a bit of an adult, A D H D. And, uh, when I have a project, you know, talking or, or a little voice in my head that&#8217;s telling me this is what I wanna be working on, I have a real hard time. Doing what I&#8217;m supposed to.  </p>



<p>So I&#8217;m being a good boy this week. But that&#8217;s definitely, I think part of my, if you can call it success, but at least part of my track record of launching so many things, is that for better or worse, I tend to be pretty self-indulgent and will often, you know, nights and weekends crank on something, even if it&#8217;s [00:09:00] not what I should be working on or what, yeah.  </p>



<p>Uh, the people around me are happy for me to be working on, but, you know, if if it&#8217;s yelling at me loud enough, then, then I, it&#8217;s hard to resist.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yeah. It&#8217;s, uh, it&#8217;s hard because you can go, you can go off , just lose yourself because it&#8217;s fun, you know? But yeah. You&#8217;re talking about like 10 years for me is, is this Blitz Creek everything at it, you know.  </p>



<p>This is a great pace. Like the pressure or like if we can get it, we can get it. We&#8217;re good. Kind of moving forward. But I do feel those tendencies of like, uh, you slacked me and we&#8217;re like, we got our first feedback and I was like, heck yeah. . And it&#8217;s a great one is an affirmation. Mm-hmm. . Um, so here&#8217;s what I had on my to to-do list and I&#8217;ll give you an update.  </p>



<p>Um, I had Laney Page, talked to content journey, and Robbie, I did one of three. [00:10:00] I talked to Lindsay about content journey and getting their, how they source images was really fascinating. Um, I think there&#8217;s something here to that. Mm-hmm. What I wanted to talk to her more is like the more abstract thought of on page somebody land, you know, finds your post from organic traffic, whatever, and ad get on page and What&#8217;s that?  </p>



<p>We had that more abstract meta conversation about the role of an image. And, uh, she gave me a lot of good feedback about how they source it. Um, they do custom stock photography, so for clients, so they&#8217;ll arrange for a photographer and they&#8217;ll do some, they do mood boards and stuff like that of like, these are the shots we want.  </p>



<p>So they use a lot of those images in their posts. Um, but they&#8217;re probably, I think, using a tool like Canva. But I think still there&#8217;s a lot of validity here for crop Exactly. For the [00:11:00] theme this mm-hmm. , that perspective really illuminated for me was these themes have designs and ratios, you know, um, I&#8217;m trying&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Oh, sorry.  </p>



<p>The, I&#8217;m trying to, I I received a little bit of validation. I just, I, let me interrupt you for a sec. The, the other feedback that I&#8217;m getting or, or experiential feedback or whatever is the same thing in that, uh, essentially there is, it&#8217;s almost like a style guide or you mentioned a mood board, but where there will be somebody who makes decisions about the types of images or the way images are presented.  </p>



<p>So we, you had me add circles. Uh, I had a client suddenly request, uh, rounded squares [00:12:00] or round, really rounded corner squares. Um, see, that&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> cool because that&#8217;s a, that&#8217;s a differe. Nope, that&#8217;s interesting.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Sorry. And so, and no. Exactly, and that&#8217;s what I mean is like, you know what, we are a little bit at the mercy of what JavaScript can do and, uh, all that kind of stuff.  </p>



<p>But I, I love the idea of, um, Somebody, again, making decisions about, you know, what essentially what is allowed, what, how images are allowed to be presented on a website. Um, and so I think that&#8217;s, again, going back to like I, who manage sites for clients or somebody who develops themes. And, and so within a given theme, you know, the, the op the theme was designed for images to be 16, nine, but every author photo is meant to be a square with rounded [00:13:00] corners or whatever it is.  </p>



<p>Um, and so being able to lock in those, you know, we, we say here&#8217;s all the options and somebody goes in and configures all those options so that then when in your day-to-day, um, you&#8217;re, it&#8217;s a no. Editing images is, takes no brain space.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> But this the, you just. Um, I uncovered something that&#8217;s really interesting to me is like, I never thought about that.  </p>



<p>Rounded corners. Mm-hmm. , like think about you kinda get a line to images, but that&#8217;s a, that little thing apart from the technical, you know, how how to do it Sure. Is. Like that&#8217;s a cool way for something to stand out and I think could be like in that pro category, uh, the pay category of stuff is like, yep.  </p>



<p>The standout thing that we had kind of got into this higher conversation about us, like how to stand out. Uh, so that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s pretty cool. [00:14:00]&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yeah, I think creative was, I think, I think we can, we can have some fun with it too. Um, potentially combined with other services or whatever. But like there&#8217;s, um, a little util we talk about, talked about utility apps.  </p>



<p>There&#8217;s a little utility app that I bookmarked and go back to from time to time, which is, uh, how I created my avatar that I use everywhere. You know, you upload an image, it, I think it&#8217;ll remove the, it must remove the background for you. Like there are a lot of little single page apps that&#8217;ll do that.  </p>



<p>But then it gives you, I don&#8217;t know, 40 different options of different backgrounds with sparkles or a star or circles. So it&#8217;s professional but fun. And then down below you can, they have backgrounds. So it&#8217;s you on a beach and you in front of the Eiffel Tower and yada yada. So, you know, we can. Relying on feedback and or when Corey&#8217;s a D H D kicks in [00:15:00] and wants to goof around.  </p>



<p>Or if I find some new, you know, piece of code that&#8217;ll let us do this stuff. Like, I don&#8217;t, I don&#8217;t want to go too crazy with this, you know, cuz it&#8217;s, we could get goofy and end up building features that nobody wants. Right. Um, but there&#8217;s definitely some opportunity for some of these little differentiators, um, to take images, uh, within WordPress to places they haven&#8217;t been before.  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> So, unless you have another pressing topic we should talk about, I&#8217;d like to explore that for a second. Not to say we should do it, but explore it. Sure. So that just kind of got me in a whole different, um, thought space of Okay. The round the corners thing is there and, and without technical understanding of this Sure.  </p>



<p>Could you have an image and have a pull quote in front of it? You know, or something like those ways of making an image, not just, I pulled [00:16:00] that from iStock photo or Unsplash or whatever, you know? Yep. Which is interesting because like your client came to you with the rounded corners. Yep. So it&#8217;s like, how could we dress up and make those images per our conversation?  </p>



<p>Like wait more. Interesting. Well, the avatar thing that&#8217;s really compelling, because maybe the tool is there&#8217;s a crop express area in the menu and you can go in and like, sure, it helps you do your featured image and eventually we&#8217;ll figure this crop where we crop it, you know? But like maybe there&#8217;s, um, that tool that, again, without technical, but I go, is that something we could do with JavaScript as a remove background or can we put some filters on mm-hmm.  </p>



<p>to, or can we lay things like a slide. That&#8217;s cool options right there. That&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> about, and, and, and what I thought you were gonna say is user images, author images, yes.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Make like in [00:17:00] with it, you get this kick butt, like, avatar,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> right. Because we&#8217;ve got, I mean, WordPress is tied to Avatar for better or worse. And there are lots of plugins for adding user images.  </p>



<p>If, you know, if in a traditional blog you have a little author byline and you wanna a little photo of them, if you don&#8217;t wanna use Gravita, there&#8217;s plugins that&#8217;ll intercept that request and, and use a WordPress image. Um, again, another place where, down the road, anywhere that somebody is interacting with images on WordPress, we wanna, you know, be there.  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Um, this is where Corey, I think we&#8217;re getting onto something. A bigger use case. Yep. But, um, you&#8217;ve been to Sticker Mule,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> but this is the background remover that I use generally.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Oh, is it? Okay. This is your utility? Yes, I have one. [00:18:00] It&#8217;s almost kinda like, oh, let&#8217;s take all these things and say, can we do them technically&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> upscale?  </p>



<p>Read your print. Yeah. So if you Google sticker Mule background remove, um, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s usually their background remover that I use cuz I, I love, I love Sticker Mule, I use them for swag. And so this is where, um, and, and there&#8217;s is free, like other people wanna limit the size or whatever, but these guys put it online so that with the idea that you would then go use whatever d background remover or image to print stickers.  </p>



<p>So yeah. Yeah, we can start getting into that. And the, the funny thing here is I&#8217;ve been curious if this, if we&#8217;d start to have this kind of conversation, um, because the, I think I mentioned a few weeks ago, like I was messing around with another product [00:19:00] in parallel, um, based on, uh, the, the service I built takes screenshots.  </p>



<p>And so it&#8217;s an API that takes screenshots, but using that a p i, it&#8217;ll, you know, people traditionally are like, oh, a screenshot of my homepage. And it&#8217;s like, okay, but you can, uh, manipulating H T M L with, and CSS is easy, relatively speaking. And then, and so you can kind of generate an image, uh, in a browser and then take a snap.  </p>



<p>Right. So one of the things that I started to build as a WordPress plugin is, um, for each post, if you go to a URL off of that post, you will see the featured image with the post title and post date. And then it takes a snapshot of that or a screenshot of that. And then that&#8217;s your social image. Yeah.  </p>



<p>Right. Oh&#8217;s and so, and so. It, it [00:20:00] does, I&#8217;m pretty sure it does require a third party, which is why I built this, had to build this separate a p i. Um, but you know, that&#8217;s something that I&#8217;ve already started looking at and there&#8217;s definitely ways that we could combine those things and it, and, you know, it should be a pro.  </p>



<p>Definitely we&#8217;re talking about getting into pro stuff, but, um, you know, there&#8217;s, yeah, it&#8217;s lots of other areas where tentacles could creep out involving images and WordPress.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> So I&#8217;m starting both these avatars and social images with the, in the screenshots that you talked about. Yeah. Because that&#8217;s so, you know, our premise a couple weeks ago was make ch creative chores fun or easier.  </p>



<p>Mm-hmm. , this is even like  </p>



<p>spruce up your stuff. Like when you talk about avatar, it&#8217;s like, wow, I went and there&#8217;s a thought behind the avatar. Cuz the final [00:21:00] thing is not just a quick image and somehow slammed in there. It&#8217;s like, no, they did a circle or run, whatever these tools we could do, it&#8217;s like treatment of images, you know?  </p>



<p>Right. So that&#8217;s a&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> level. Yeah. And, and again, I think, you know, the, to me the, I keep coming back to this. The real value add is, The Wizbang, um, not the actual creative part, but, but locking down the creative part. So, uh, you know, I ha again, I have a website, it&#8217;s a, um, or a client website. It&#8217;s a magazine. So every, uh, article that gets submitted has a user, cuz that&#8217;s the author.  </p>



<p>And so we&#8217;re up to a couple a dozen or, you know, and, and technically more. Um, but every, each one has to upload, we need to get an image from the author and then we upload it and it&#8217;s, they&#8217;re never quite [00:22:00] consistent and stuff like that. And so it&#8217;s, if we, we went in initially and decided, okay, avatar images are, even if it&#8217;s not connected necessarily to like the user profile or whatever.  </p>



<p>Cuz I keep ta I like your idea of a top level menu item that&#8217;s like, here&#8217;s. Even if it&#8217;s just bookmarks that link to deeper points within WordPress. But it&#8217;s like, here, here you can manage all of your author avatars and you know, initially when you set up the site, you&#8217;d say, okay, we want them all to be square and we want them all to have, you know, rounded corners.  </p>



<p>And you set that and you forget it. And so then every time a new author comes in, you know, you just say, upload image, crop it. And, and these decisions are made rather than, oh, we have a new author. I have to go back to Canva and move sliders around and try to remember, you know, what is our norm. Um, it&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> right there.[00:23:00]&nbsp;  </p>



<p>Yeah. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s where you need it, where you&#8217;re doing the work. It&#8217;s not another platform. Yeah. Well like you&#8217;re saying, that concept is like left hand menu thing could be like that sticker mill tools. , here&#8217;s all your tools. Like, they&#8217;re not gonna need avatar every time, but they know, oh, I go back here. Go back to the utility.  </p>



<p>Yep. That spruces my images up,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> you know? Yeah. I like that idea of the, the menu because it&#8217;s, I, I kind of got stuck on when you were talking about it last week. I&#8217;m like, I like it from a branding perspective, you know, but what, and, and we could, and I, I don&#8217;t have a problem with having sort of an abstract utility app built in, but I, I was like, there&#8217;s something missing.  </p>



<p>And I think it&#8217;s that, like you, there&#8217;s a sub menu that says avatar, featured image, general image, or a crop to your heart&#8217;s content, you know? But,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> so here&#8217;s, here&#8217;s a question to that. [00:24:00] Um, there&#8217;s JavaScript tools and things that are available that do things. What are some of the things that, like in the libraries or out there, maybe that could connect some dots and go.  </p>



<p>Is this something that could be an easy lift and maybe the utility is more pro, but I&#8217;m really li I really like that. Like when we kind of make, become the indispensable utility for sping up your images or whatever fancy thing we&#8217;re gonna call it in there. But then I just go, there&#8217;s so much locked in jQuery, JavaScript, different libraries that are probably easy reasons.  </p>



<p>Like, is this remove a background feature? You know, I&#8217;m just giving. Mm-hmm. suggest like thoughts here. But if there&#8217;s some of that, it&#8217;s like, why not put that there anytime. I think the principal here could be, anytime we save them from having to go offsite site, that&#8217;s gotta be a plus one. Like that removed background thing.  </p>



<p>I know the iPhone does it, [00:25:00] stuff like that. But, um, the, some of these ticker meal tools, like you, you have that book marked to do that, you know? Mm-hmm. . That&#8217;s cool. Could we. Can we pull some of those things into that library? And then I guess the question is, what are some of those low hanging fruit fruits for that?  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yep, yep. I&#8217;m looking at, um, image manipulation plugins, WordPress image editor plugins, because I, you know, it&#8217;s, it, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s features, there&#8217;s benefits, there&#8217;s ways that they come together and we can, we can offer, we can keep adding features. Eventually we will suss out whether people are using them or not.  </p>



<p>Either we will build them because we get feedback or we will build them, and eventually we&#8217;ll start looking at analytics and determine that. Mm-hmm. , nobody is using the [00:26:00] watermarking tool or whatever we end. Attic, but I, Ooh. But I wanna&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> watermarking, . That&#8217;s another one I&#8217;m writing down, man. Seriously.  </p>



<p>Because you got all these photographers, different people, and they&#8217;re like, they wanna put their art up, but they want some sense of protection. That&#8217;s, that opens up another set of things like a whole other y uh, you know, an avatar group we can go toward, like, with just that watermark thing. Mm-hmm. . So I&#8217;m writing that down too,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> but I, what I wanna make sure the, the, the concentric circle that I wanna, or, or the middle that I wanna make sure we end up in it with.  </p>



<p>Um, this is like, I&#8217;m looking at plugins where you, it&#8217;s Canva or it&#8217;s whatever image editor you like, it&#8217;s Instagram. But it&#8217;s abstract. And, [00:27:00] and I see ways that these other plugins are not, maybe not integrated the way that we are talking about integrating. Cuz that to me is the real value. Like I&#8217;d rather have fewer, this is, this is me based on my experience, right?  </p>



<p>Obviously this will be determined by feedback, but I would rather have fewer features but be where it actually matters than I&#8217;m looking again at these other tools that are, I think the same, similar thing where like they&#8217;ve implemented libraries or they&#8217;ve, they&#8217;ve built a utility app and they&#8217;ve, you know, shoehorned it into WordPress, uh, like this, I don&#8217;t mean these to be derogatory phrases, um, but it&#8217;s, they are, they are potentially powerful photo editors, but they&#8217;re not where you need them to be.  </p>



<p>Right? Yeah. If you, if you have to click. Into media in order to get the editor in [00:28:00] order to upload an image to then go to a post, to me, you&#8217;ve missed an opportunity cuz it&#8217;s the, I want to click on featured image or I want to click on an image block and that&#8217;s where this, you know, whatever features need to be.  </p>



<p>Um, and, and that&#8217;s, and I think sussing out all those use cases to then go, okay, yes, they need watermarks or they need filters, or they need rounded corners or whatever. That&#8217;s when we start, you know, chasing all those feature lists basically. Yep.  </p>



<p>All I hear is that I need to get off my butt and hurry up. And not at all, get this stuff implemented, . Not at&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> all. But I, I continue to be excited as we do. Uh, really this whole product is just a dis a safari between Corey and Corey and I, I, I wrote down here. We&#8217;re building the case, you know, for it. [00:29:00] And, um, got our first feedback,  </p>



<p>there&#8217;s a point where we&#8217;re gonna have to say, okay, we think we&#8217;re onto something. And I guess the two ways I think about this one is just put it in a pro version and get somebody to buy. That&#8217;s validation. Second is, hey, does all this resonate? If, so here&#8217;s a, like a, it&#8217;s not a Kickstarter, but a Kickstarter thing of like, buy a hundred dollars, you know, we need 10 grand, let&#8217;s say, to chase these features that we&#8217;re gonna do that we&#8217;ve heard and come in, we&#8217;ll give you some special thing by being one of the first.  </p>



<p>Yep. So that&#8217;s another option, but I&#8217;m just throwing stuff out like. That&#8217;s a good idea because I feel like we&#8217;re starting to really build a case and we&#8217;re gonna need to make some actual decisions here pretty soon of going, we think this is it, but level of effort for [00:30:00] two hobby workers here doing this, it&#8217;s gonna require capital to go get, get the developer plus more time, you know, to, to chase some of these&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> mm-hmm.  </p>



<p>Yep. So, yeah, there&#8217;s definitely a, I There&#8217;ll&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> be a catalytic moment. I&#8217;m sorry, there&#8217;ll be a CATA for sure. Moment. You know, we keep coming back soon and&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> we&#8217;re soon there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s op we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re coming at it from opposite ends. Mm-hmm. . Um, we have, I think in the, in some of our discussions, we&#8217;ve established a baseline of functionality that&#8217;s on my plate and then we&#8217;re having really good high level conversations that are.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s, you know, you&#8217;re building a house, you know, you need a basement or a a, a cement slab. That&#8217;s Corey&#8217;s job right now. But it&#8217;s, and, and it&#8217;s not without its interesting challenges or [00:31:00] fun points of creativity, but you and I are, at the end of the day, each opening a beer proverbially and standing back and going, okay, so do we wanna build a widows walk?  </p>



<p>Do we want, uh, a hot tub? Do we want, um, you know, uh, a fireman&#8217;s pole? And s and right now is the time to have all those conversations. Cuz we&#8217;re like, oh, well, uh, I live in New Hampshire hot tub, you can only use about three months of the year. Not that people don&#8217;t have them, but you know, oh, we use&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> ours. , I use ours, I should say.  </p>



<p>I&#8217;m like, okay, it&#8217;s five degrees, but ,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> it&#8217;s hot out there. .&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yeah. That maybe warrants some of this, cuz I think we&#8217;re building a case enough where I ki kind of go, okay man, it but it almost si to me and I wanna get your opinions on this. Here&#8217;s free. It&#8217;s got us enough to like really get to talking. Some [00:32:00] people are kind of using it and then going like some of these things.  </p>



<p>I&#8217;m like, yeah. Then we just take down there. There&#8217;s a general thought or direction here. It&#8217;s like anything where you have to go offsite. Let&#8217;s think about that. Let&#8217;s think about watermark, social engine, screenshots, avatars, that&#8217;s all like paid features. Yeah, those are paid things.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yeah. But I like your idea of,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> that&#8217;s why, by the way, I&#8217;m glad you got that other domain, ,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> too many domains.  </p>



<p>I in I, that one I own actually brought me up to 20, which is way down. I used to have. You know, a hundred or something. But we need to&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> buy domain support group separate from this, cuz I&#8217;m with you. Um, but the, the domain you did get, I go, that&#8217;s probably where it seems like right now, today as we&#8217;ve talked about these options, that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re probably gonna land.  </p>



<p>Yeah. Um, [00:33:00] so, uh, sorry, so what are your thoughts on like, I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;m feeling excited. I don&#8217;t wanna get it, but, you know, beyond our skis here, but I go man, one of these, you start with one domino, the second into a pro feature set. Um, we still don&#8217;t have a ton of users, which is what we need. Right. Well, I need&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> to finish thoughts on that again.  </p>



<p>I need to finish the slab. I need to finish the baseline version that is, Because the other thing I wanna be careful of, and, and we&#8217;re gonna have to, as usual 10, 10 thoughts, thought threads at once here. But I am glad that we are talking about these other directions because I want, what we can&#8217;t do is [00:34:00] have a plugin that is, um,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> what are you looking at  </p>



<p>Uh, if you heard somebody yelling, that&#8217;s my dad, ,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> um, what we, what we can&#8217;t have is a free version that is useless. Yeah. Right. Okay. Is, or, or that, that hint set, you know, features but doesn&#8217;t actually deliver. And so I kind of have a feeling. , what we had originally talked about was like pro features that are specifically for, uh, agencies, stuff like that.  </p>



<p>But I have a feeling that even the non-technical or non-agency user is going to need like half of the pro features and great, we, it would be great if we could sell it to them, but if it, if it&#8217;s useless without those features, you know, we, [00:35:00] we see, we see too much churn. Yeah. And so if, if we can even make a pro version that&#8217;s cheap, that just adds a little bit of icing, but then we can use all of this as a segue into these other bigger solving, these other bigger problems than we start to build an empire.  </p>



<p>Um, which is very, uh, exciting. You know, if we. We start to get into, if there&#8217;s an uh, you know, WordPress and plugins and their add-ons, if there&#8217;s an avatar add-on, if there&#8217;s a social media image add-on mm-hmm. different from the core pro, which is only, you know, 10 bucks to add, you know, color pickers or something, you know, that, that feels better to me than trying to sell or trying to get people to use a free version that only works for us.  </p>



<p>Very small percentage. Yeah. And then [00:36:00] expect everybody to pay a hundred bucks. They&#8217;re just not gonna, yeah. Thank,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> thanks for anchor this. It needs to be a step, we need to work back on to the slab. So when you said that it came little kind of clear to me is like, maybe it&#8217;s just that area, you know, below the featured image.  </p>



<p>Uh, I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s where it should go in the ui, but it seems like that one thing could flesh out. And maybe there&#8217;s even, like, maybe that&#8217;s where custom dimensions comes into. Mm-hmm. Here it is, all your cropping. You don&#8217;t have to go somewhere else, you don&#8217;t have to upgrade, but like, it&#8217;s the free mvp.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s the, uh, not mvp. It&#8217;s the value prop is just want to get the right sized images, you know, done easily without having to find all these different workflows. It&#8217;s right here sitting for you as a utility right there [00:37:00] in right sidebar, post and page. What do you think?&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yeah, I see that like it&#8217;s, uh, basically going in a, going in a different dimension.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s all of the features, but only in limited places as opposed to some of the features everywhere. All of the features everywhere. Yeah. So, yeah, we can, we can, we can look at that kind of configuration. I think it, to me, that&#8217;s. , the way I often design product is by building, as we&#8217;ve talked about. And so I think that that&#8217;s the sort of thing that&#8217;s going to become self pretty self apparent as I&#8217;m building.  </p>



<p>And then you and I can either have one of these calls or can talk in Slack as I&#8217;m going. Okay, so we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve covered our bases. We have that cement slab. What is, what does this first floor look like? Do I build three stories of one room or do I build one story of three rooms? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And so we can [00:38:00] decide whether we want to kind of go up or go out.  </p>



<p>Um, so, you know, so what feels good and what, how much feedback we have&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> at the time. Absolutely. And what clarity I see now up for your feedback is we have some case for. A bigger utility that goes, dives deeper into like the avatar. So there&#8217;s the screenshot thing. You blew my mind for a second. But you go into social images, you go into water marketing.  </p>



<p>So we&#8217;ve got a case building here for pro and then you anchored us back to free full. A full featured free, I think is what I take from this. And that makes me think that free tool needs to be inside bar and it needs to have custom dimensions. Mm-hmm. . Because then why would you want to go anywhere else?  </p>



<p>Like, cuz somebody could conceivably say, well it&#8217;s letting me crop and get the crop, you know, images, but I want them to a little different. Then they&#8217;re still having to go out. But if we just think only featured free, I [00:39:00] go, that&#8217;s it To me. I go put it in the sidebar. Custom dimensions we&#8217;re good, but again, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m positing this, I just  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> custom dimensions. I think that&#8217;s where. Okay. Because I think it&#8217;s necessary. I think that that&#8217;s the, you know, you we&#8217;re, without it, we&#8217;re talking about, I don&#8217;t know, a car without gas or something. Mm-hmm. . It just doesn&#8217;t, it just doesn&#8217;t do enough. We can&#8217;t, I can&#8217;t imagine that the vast majority of websites only use Square or 16.9 and subsequently we&#8217;re gonna cover our bases.  </p>



<p>I think it&#8217;s, um, cuz we also, I think, want to hint at that additional value prop of agencies of locking down your website, even from yourself. So the settings page. [00:40:00] Yeah. If you want to allow certain sizes or aspect ratios that are not 16, nine or square, you have to click, click, click to go over to the settings page.  </p>



<p>Now you set it once and you forget it. But it&#8217;s over there. Whereas day to day you&#8217;re going in and you&#8217;re going, well, my website is actually 16 1.6 that&#8217;s already configured, and then day-to-day, I&#8217;m just plugging in in images.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> So it seems like, like I&#8217;m trying to remember back to like the Photoshop CRO tool.  </p>



<p>You get the little window over here that&#8217;s, you can type in pixels wide, pixels tall. Then you have an aspect ratio that could be tweaked potentially. Yeah. Like to me, man, if that&#8217;s like maybe the, there&#8217;s the preset, click it go. Just try to get &#8217;em fast. The crop. Then there&#8217;s, in that window, when it pulls up, there&#8217;s, maybe it&#8217;s an advanced tab or something, but it&#8217;s [00:41:00] conceptual.  </p>



<p>I&#8217;m just kind of talking, but it&#8217;s like those little, that little Photoshop box. If you want to go custom, here you go. And then you can click crop and it&#8217;s done. Yep. Okay. If that&#8217;s it. What, what do you think the level ever for that is? Because I don&#8217;t wanna say Corey, could you do that for us? But I just wanna say, what do you think?  </p>



<p>That level of effort, because man, right, with that is, okay, beachhead product is crop the pro then become, this is a path into pro. You do this, by the way, so here&#8217;s the panacea for those of you that needs this over here, it&#8217;s called mm-hmm. , our domain. Um, so what&#8217;s level, level of&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> effort you think for that?  </p>



<p>Uh, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s honestly, I ha it&#8217;s built already. I had to rip it out, um, to submit the free version because we had talked about, I love working with developers, , um, you know, keeping it very simple. Yeah. Just getting a proof of concept out the door. So, uh, [00:42:00] you know, cuz that, that&#8217;s, to me, even thinking about the 0 0 1 version, we, I knew we would need custom.  </p>



<p>Configuration. So, um, so putting in a simple settings page and allowing, uh, some basic, you know, one or two presets essentially gets us there. Um,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> okay. So, so if I capture this right though, so they would activate plugin and set those in the plugin settings tab and then have &#8217;em available when that rat sidebar thing comes up, or did I get that wrong?  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> No, that, I mean, that was how I imagined it initially. Okay. Uh, but I, as we&#8217;ve talked about, or I talked about I two or three sessions ago, I also think that we need an option to bypass. Um, like we don&#8217;t want to truly [00:43:00] 100% Absolutely. Lock somebody out of uploading an image that&#8217;s some goofy size and shape, like that&#8217;s just root.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s your, it&#8217;s their website. So, in. So in my mind, the flow that we&#8217;ve proposed is setting up a new site or you have a site, you install the plugin, you&#8217;d go and say, this site uses or will use 16 1.6 aspect ratio images save. And then when I, whenever I try to upload a featured image, it&#8217;ll, it&#8217;s an option.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;ll default to that. But there will also, which right now we&#8217;re lacking. But there is so an advanced button that says, do whatever the hell you want. Or just, yeah, blunt. Upload a 10,000 pixel image. Even though we don&#8217;t recommend that you do that. So the&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> reason why I&#8217;m asking some of these in depth, cuz if I get the workflow in my head and I know how it goes, I, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;d like to, here&#8217;s your workflow, here it is, you know, [00:44:00] and we&#8217;re gonna do our best in the product side to make it really easy and safe.  </p>



<p>But that&#8217;s really helpful cuz I&#8217;d go. Hey, it&#8217;s here in the settings page, but you can also, when you&#8217;re popping it up, crop it to what you think. Right? But if they&#8217;re like me, I go, I don&#8217;t know how far this is. I don&#8217;t, you know, I don&#8217;t know how wide single post templates are typically, I guess like 400, 500.  </p>



<p>But, so that&#8217;s really, really awesome cuz there&#8217;s like, if you&#8217;re the agency, you&#8217;re gonna set it in the plugin. It&#8217;s there for &#8217;em. If you&#8217;re the independent professional using it, trying to publish content, you might use this at some point, but you got this flexibility. That&#8217;s, that&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> brilliant. And I think, uh, we will do two things.  </p>



<p>We will have, and this is similar to a lot of other plugins that have this pattern, and I think it&#8217;s, I think it&#8217;s a winner, is you have a settings page. So [00:45:00] you&#8217;ve gone non-developers, but you also allow those settings to be. Hmm. Locked in by defining constants in your WP config file. So it&#8217;s the kind of thing where, uh, you know, um, WP Migrate DB Pro, um, or a c F or there&#8217;s a bunch of other plugins that do this, where you&#8217;ve, uh, you can go in and fiddle with things, or Corey the developer, sets up a new site, drops in a couple of the same constants on all of the sites, and so there&#8217;s no messing with a settings page.  </p>



<p>Things are just defined. Um, and so we can do a, uh, we can normalize it that way too. So&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I&#8217;m gonna follow up with Kathy&#8217;s aunt over at Cadence to talk this through, but there, we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve hit it because the free tool will say, [00:46:00] this is what I heard. I&#8217;m a web development design firm, agency developer, whatever else.  </p>



<p>Um, I create, go to all this pain to create this great site for someone and then they end up probably bettering because the images is a wild, wild west in their workflow is like, we&#8217;re gonna use cadence or whatever theme framework, Hey, go here. This is gonna protect your beautiful project you just delivered to the client.  </p>



<p>That&#8217;s killer man. Yeah. And just making it like it&#8217;s a free tool, you know? And by the way, at some point there&#8217;s gonna be this other thing. So like we get &#8217;em here, use this on all your client sites. So that&#8217;s the u free utility version. Help people. That&#8217;s our, I think that&#8217;s our angle into building the user base for this is, Hey everybody, raise your hand if you had a client.  </p>



<p>Who takes your beautiful project and screws it up with images. [00:47:00] Yep. Okay. This crop express helps put some little guardrails, like bowling, put the guardrails out so it doesn&#8217;t bounce into the gutter. Yep. I think we&#8217;ve just like stumbled into really compelling to this process. Um, way to go, like we&#8217;re being opinionated, you know, you telling me like themes said, I was like going back to my theme days going, yeah, you&#8217;re right.  </p>



<p>They designed us with specific things to make sure it lights up like the demo site does, but then in the tool, in the software itself, , it&#8217;s all over the place. It breaks, it makes it&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> look ugly and, and here&#8217;s a little like silly little thing, but low lift may be valuable is I&#8217;m picturing content journey who are writers.  </p>



<p>And content people, but who are, maybe some of them at [00:48:00] least are not going to be artistic or not going to be comfortable in Photoshop or what have you. Right. So they will, they might be sourcing images. I&#8217;m trying to, I&#8217;m thinking on my feet here, so obviously I&#8217;m stumbling a little, but like my clients too, they go and they source images and I have taught them that we use, we need an image that within that image, whatever size shape it is, there needs to be a 16 nine and there needs to be a square cuz the one of the sites specifically uses that.  </p>



<p>Right. But they&#8217;ve had to learn that and I&#8217;ve had to teach that to them. And so imagine this, again, silly little thing, but I, I kind of am in love with this idea at the moment. I love where you&#8217;re going. Is uh, it, once you hit settings or once you set those things, it auto generates a style [00:49:00] guide, documentation or what have you.  </p>



<p>You know, and, and I think this can keep going, but like, again, the quick and easy is I install Crop Express. I set it, I, the developer set it so that the, the website allows this and, you know, 16, nine and square both need to be 10,000 or, or 2000 or less, which is the plug-in will or take advantage of, but it generates some sort of documentation or reference material that I can then hand the client and say, you know, not so, so it doesn&#8217;t rely on them to have to learn or have to figure this stuff out.  </p>



<p>They have. A thing upfront that says, okay, here&#8217;s what you need when you go to Unsplash affiliate link. When you go to Stock Unlimited affiliate link, you know, these are the, this is what you need to be looking for, this is how you download it, et cetera, et cetera. [00:50:00]&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I love it because you&#8217;re teaching in the software, you&#8217;re guiding in not just programmatically, but like, that&#8217;s content heaven right there, because conceptually settings page when they&#8217;re doing, or there&#8217;s a, some kind of quick, you know, setup and it&#8217;s like, that&#8217;s our lead magnet two.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s like, hey, here&#8217;s the five best places. Uh, here&#8217;s some th like the thoughts we&#8217;ve done on how to like source an image. We, you and I could probably rough some of that out and like, you want it, you know, and journalism is like, you don&#8217;t want the person looking off the page. , you know, so like there&#8217;s some tips we could put in there and that could become guidance and lead magnet&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> and like, yep.  </p>



<p>And we let, let developers white label it so they put their own logo. And so Corey gets paid to set up a website. I set up a website, install a theme, install crop express, plug in [00:51:00] the hardcode, what I know will, will work and, and match a best practice. Click a button that then downloads the documentation that I need, that I can then hand the client so that, you know, it makes my life easier.  </p>



<p>I don&#8217;t have to teach them anything. Ooh. And, and maybe that is powerful. Maybe, maybe I, it lets me put my logo in there instead of crop express. So I&#8217;m now handing Corey branded material to the client who I just built a website for.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I just think I need to go, I put another name on my list, which is I need to talk to Kimberly at ballet.  </p>



<p>Because all these companies that do agencies that do maintenance and stuff, you&#8217;re like, Hey, make this better. You know? Like, this will make it better. They&#8217;re, they&#8217;ll actually size images correctly. You can do the things you&#8217;re talking about cuz you&#8217;re thinking about the white label, which normally in the past I put into pro.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s like, well, that&#8217;s when you get into pro. But I love it here because it&#8217;s like [00:52:00] when you go to a developer, you can just do this and it&#8217;s gonna be better. And they go, heck yeah, because I don&#8217;t have to do all the work and the, I&#8217;m gonna get the benefit from that for my client. Now we&#8217;re, now we&#8217;re here, now we&#8217;re hitting huge case study for free and Pro.  </p>



<p>Mm-hmm. . Yep. That&#8217;s, that&#8217;s brilliant man. So, okay, so the, what I got is right sidebar custom dimensions. And maybe a third for downstream is like, do we do this white labeling thing? But I&#8217;ll put the third, uh, that&#8217;ll be fourth. I&#8217;ll put the third is, and this will be on me. Uh, I&#8217;ll need some help from you.  </p>



<p>But it is like collecting these, here&#8217;s your five sources. Mm-hmm. , you know, here&#8217;s, you can find and source good, good stuff. And I could turn into, lead back to our blog on the site [00:53:00] that at some point goes, we&#8217;re gonna talk about open ai, this source. Like, hey, that&#8217;s a webinar you and I can do. Just playing around with stuff.  </p>



<p>I&#8217;ve been talking to Ag Mors about this, like, maybe we spend a webinar, we&#8217;re like talking about how to cool, create cool images for your blog post using Dolly, or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. great content. Get the people attracted that we need. Tell &#8217;em we&#8217;re trying to make their life better. Like, that&#8217;s the, that&#8217;s the, that&#8217;s the game right there.  </p>



<p>Like, yeah. Okay, let me, let me record this right side dimensions, some of the EDU guidance content that&#8217;s me. And then downstream, I think is what label, unless  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> I mean just, you know, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s complicated ways to do it and easy ways to do it. And so we can start with the easy way of no branding or what have you. And here&#8217;s content. Yeah. [00:54:00] Um, I worked with valet a few years ago and one of the things that they were working hard on was the conceptual.  </p>



<p>Literature and illustration of the value they provided every month. Um, and came up with, I have t-shirts that have the design on them, but, um, the illustrated, you know, here&#8217;s what we do for you every month, because that is something that agencies who who run retainers have to, you wanna stay top of mind.  </p>



<p>You don&#8217;t want just invoices to roll in without a client going, wait, what did, what did you do in the last 30 days? Or what did you do in the last year? Um, Chris Lema had a great blog post about this years ago, um, that I took away from, uh, for my conbon plugin was send, you know, between purchasing and renewal, I [00:55:00] automated 12 emails.  </p>



<p>That of generic content, valuable, but generic content, evergreen, I should say, content. So at month eight it would say, okay, you are eight months into using your CONBON plugin. By now you are an expert. Here are some advanced tips, or whatever it was. Um, and so, you know, if we can give agencies content to hand to their clients, it&#8217;s obviously not necessarily month over month, but that kind of content.  </p>



<p>You know, I&#8217;m teaching you, I&#8217;m helping you use your website to its fullest, all that kind of stuff. I, you know, again, I, I think it, it will resonate with some people. Yep.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Uh, championing the cause, helping people, guiding them, walking with them. It&#8217;s good stuff.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> But all that to say, I think, yeah, Kim at Valet would is a great person.  </p>



<p>I know that they were working on that. I mean, it was years ago now, but, [00:56:00] um, you know, see where she&#8217;s at and, and see that it resonates with her or doesn&#8217;t, but. Okay.  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I think Kathy, uh, I&#8217;ll try to ping Kathy this week. If I can get to it today. I&#8217;ll ping her to get the conversation. I&#8217;ve got other things to talk about or talk with her anyway and talk about this cuz if we can like get on a tr get on somebody&#8217;s that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a Cadillac moment potentially. Plus being able to, sorry, go ahead.  </p>



<p>Just being able to say this is how the theme will look best and this tool&#8217;s gonna help you with that. Huge. Yeah. And&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> I, I would love to make sure that that&#8217;s true. Because as I&#8217;ve discussed a little bit, I, I primarily use a page builder, which lets anybody upload anything anywhere on the page. Different from what [00:57:00] I conventionally thought of with themes, which was I buy a realtor theme that is already preconfigured for a realtor.  </p>



<p>So when I click install theme it autoinject fake content with fake realtor pages and fake listings and all that, you know. Does that where between the block editor and the block editor being used for full site editing and page builders and these big theme frameworks or, you know, uh, just shy of a page builder type theme.  </p>



<p>I want to make sure that that&#8217;s the use case we&#8217;re talking about is still true. Mm-hmm. . In which case, it&#8217;s not like I, you know, we could make a module for Elementor or Beaver Builder, and then it&#8217;s on the [00:58:00] shoulders of the person setting up the website to install those modules and then set those, you know, we want, we wanna allow 16, nine images or whatever it is, which I think is a different use case than my neighbor who&#8217;s a realtor.  </p>



<p>Mm-hmm. , who installs a plugin and it&#8217;s the, or ex installs a theme. And the theme is preconfigured with our, to work with our plugin to, to say, you know, I have already built all these layouts that are, that encourage that, that only really work best with 16 not, does that make sense? Like, oh yeah.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yeah. It&#8217;s so.  </p>



<p>So thinking ahead&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> to them, talk your, your theme people and make sure that this assumption is correct.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yeah, we&#8217;ll just get on the, see where that alignment is. But my hunch is like, I think it&#8217;s Ben over at Cadence, but as they&#8217;re, whoever designs [00:59:00] their themes, actually, I think it&#8217;s Sailor now, but whoever design their themes, like if you could wish that they would fill it with images that really glorify your theme, what would that be?  </p>



<p>That&#8217;s the question, right? You know,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> and or, and or we&#8217;re talking about, you know, if, if you are, because if a theme gives total freedom like a page builder, where, where does it make sense to lock down images? Because Corey comes into a blank slate. It&#8217;s up to me to decide. Okay. You know, or, or I had a client who, um, it&#8217;s a, um, Asian American themed website.  </p>



<p>And so they originally wanted images that were, um, slightly vertical based on the Japanese mats that people sleep on. Apparently, they are a standard aspect ratio, and so [01:00:00] I don&#8217;t think anybody has ever looked at the website and, and got the reference. But, you know, they wanted, so it&#8217;s, again, it is like, you know, four instead of a four, three aspect ratio, it&#8217;s four, 3.7, but that would&#8217;ve been decided by the designer and or me, not the theme creator.  </p>



<p>Mm-hmm. . So anyway, I&#8217;m just, I&#8217;m, and I, I have no idea what the theme landscape looks like these days.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> It&#8217;s something I can, I can add some of our agency owners too. It&#8217;s like, What, what tools are they doing to build websites and things like that? I still take it, especially on the boutique level, they&#8217;re using some framework like a Cadence Generat press, an AOR or Beaver builder to, to build that.  </p>



<p>So if we can, I love this cuz it&#8217;s just, we&#8217;re just talking about the workflow, which you&#8217;ve done right? You specifically have done so you know that and that&#8217;s, [01:01:00] yeah, that&#8217;s good stuff. Okay, so plan is get, get to the full feature set for free  </p>



<p>and I&#8217;ll talk to these people and then we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;re building this really cool case for being that utility. Oh, everything&#8217;s here. Then we can start talking about where that, like tools here, but there&#8217;s, does it need to be integrated here? Like when you say social images, does it need to be somewhere, again, not technically speaking here, but conceptually is like, Yost has social images that needs to tie into here.  </p>



<p>Um, man, we&#8217;re, I think we&#8217;re onto something. I really do. And it&#8217;s not just blind optimism and because we&#8217;re having fun doing this. I think we&#8217;re getting, we&#8217;re really building this case.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Well, and I, the other thing, I think the good plan that has evolved, yes. And, and I think we are building, [01:02:00] people talk about authority and this is how you build authority.  </p>



<p>Like you, you get an idea for a product or a problem you want to solve, and then you start splashing around at it, you know? Yeah. I hadn&#8217;t thought about image cropping really, because I am comfortable in Photoshop and Yep. And then I, after a while I got lazy and so started using, you know, a different program or found a website that did it and it was good enough, but I was never.  </p>



<p>Thinking deeply about cropping images other than I needed to, I need, I need this done, this task done, and now it&#8217;s done. And then I quick upload it and off we go. Whereas now we are, we are becoming the experts, uh, on cropping images, manipulating images, WordPresses relationship with images, themes, images, plugins, da da da da da da da.  </p>



<p>Um, and that&#8217;s where, down the road, [01:03:00] you know, I, I, I have, I have a lot of fun with this, this part of the process. And down the road we become, you know, the image expert guys, the crop expert guys. The, it&#8217;s all of our marketing content. Go ahead.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Oh, no, no, no, no. You&#8217;re, yeah, I was, yes, you&#8217;re on the thing. Uh, the next thing I was gonna say, you&#8217;re leading straight into it.  </p>



<p>Do, um, do you mind if we talk publicly about the domain? No, of course not. Okay. So, You&#8217;re leading into this . I was trying to be like not, not as excited. So I could&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> finish, wait, hold this statement. Should we It is, it is th uh, 1 0 5. Should we save the discussion till next week?  </p>



<p>Yes, you can say no .&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Okay. I wanna say no because I think it&#8217;s just real quick. It&#8217;s just a thought that we&#8217;ll come back to. Mm-hmm. for sure. For direction. We built this case and everything, so I go, crop Express is the free [01:04:00] plugin, but the domain is the brand. Mm. So like if you think about business and marketing wise, we got this one thing, but we&#8217;re making this case for, and how would you say the domain It&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> unfortunately, so it&#8217;s image img.express.  </p>



<p>Okay.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> So to me, it seems like we just got this clear path, like we&#8217;re building this case and I go, it needs to be crop express by. I m g Express because we just placed this discovered, backed into, here&#8217;s the free utility. There&#8217;s a bigger case here, but it&#8217;s by this brand Corey and Corey, the I m G Express guys.  </p>



<p>Yep. You know, so I kind of tend to think like when we&#8217;re ready doesn&#8217;t have to happen. Now is like, because all roads we want to lead to, we did this just to get your attention to a beachhead and then, but we&#8217;re the [01:05:00] IMG guys, right? From a branding business&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> perspective, we are, we are all things image.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yep.  </p>



<p>Because we&#8217;ve got these use guys. We know we&#8217;ve got some, some, some, we got something here. Um, that is a, could be packaged together and sold for a good price that could sustain and support this business. So that, that&#8217;s the only thing I wanted to say. We don&#8217;t have to finalize that, but I just go man, that that&#8217;s clarity.  </p>



<p>Of like, it&#8217;s the Im g guys, and by the way, we&#8217;re known like, this is a great utility. Everybody should use it. We do it free because you, you need it, people need it. This is gonna make the web better. When you get to the advanced stuff and you really want to go next level, look what we&#8217;re doing here. And that&#8217;s where you come into the community as Im g community, as professionals doing this work.  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yeah. I mean, the obvious, uh, parallel that comes to mind is like sayed at doing WP [01:06:00] Beginner. Mm-hmm. Where WP G beginner, uh, I don&#8217;t, I, it runs ads. I suppose I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s some way that it makes money, but for the most part it&#8217;s just a phenomenal resource.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Yeah. It&#8217;s hub free content. It&#8217;s the Osmo Automotive Hub for everything they.  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Right. And obviously they, they use it to promote their products and stuff like that, but I end up on their website all the time learning things. I scroll to the bottom where they usually have a code, version, um, to solve whatever little problem I&#8217;m trying to, to solve. But, um, you know, to me we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re kind of following that same path.  </p>



<p>If we get people using Crop Express often and and using that for, um, as a reference for other things, then yeah, you know, we can, we can kind of go in any direction really. So, I&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> already put another domain thought about this and I didn&#8217;t wanna do it [01:07:00] publicly just yet cuz we don&#8217;t have the domain secured for it, but I was like, and, and I&#8217;ll totally buy that one.  </p>



<p>But, um, I was like, you think about IMG and stuff. But yes. Sorry, back to I got, I got squirreled, sorry. But back to this. You&#8217;re fine. , we&#8217;re, we&#8217;re building the case. We&#8217;re creating this resource. You and I are passionate about this kind of stuff. We&#8217;ve got extensive experience, even if we weren&#8217;t the person, we&#8217;ve, we&#8217;ve done these things and it feels very natural to be like, that&#8217;s the brand.  </p>



<p>This is our, and I wouldn&#8217;t have had that clarity two months ago, by the way.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Right, right. It&#8217;s, yeah. You know, we are waiting deeper and deeper into the pr and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s also where you start to, you know, the edges become less amorphous. Mm-hmm. You know, the , uh, uh, but you also start to see the rise in . Yeah.  </p>



<p>But it&#8217;s, you know, you, [01:08:00] you&#8217;re stepping foot in, into, you know, all new territory. And I mean, we&#8217;re gonna keep having these conversations, uh, and especially. Upfront because we&#8217;re not getting a lot of feedback. We are doing our own exploration, which also involves like, you know, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s lots of writing and whatnot about we are, we are having biased conversations, right?  </p>



<p>We are going, you are, you are going to content journey with a solution looking for a problem if we&#8217;re honest mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, we&#8217;re not, we are open to them saying what we really need is X, Y, Z. But you know, that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re at. Because right now all we can do is make assumptions.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I did try just so you know, to not do problem first and ask somebody, oh sure.  </p>



<p>How do you do it? And that was a gold mine, just like this guy mentioned. He&#8217;s like, okay. That&#8217;s validating of, we&#8217;re not trying to just say, I&#8217;ve got a hammer. Where&#8217;s your nail? Um, [01:09:00] that&#8217;s good stuff, man. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s been fun walking with you and this is a good, like, I think we needed each other to kind of, Get to this part.  </p>



<p>And it just feels better than, honestly, better than any product I&#8217;ve done because we&#8217;re, we had less pressure. We thought it served our need and we started exploring how it is, and it, it just feels like we&#8217;re on the right path. Yeah, for sure. This could be something, man.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> And it&#8217;s, and I, I&#8217;m really selfishly, I&#8217;m excited to see where we end up in a year, maybe nowhere, who knows, but to then come back and visit these conversations cuz these are always the, you know, what is it, you know, you did.  </p>



<p>You make a, you make a plan, and then halfway through executing the plan, you&#8217;re like, why did we decide&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> to do this? See, I thought that was the only one. Like, yeah, nobody comes over. [01:10:00] Most people, I should say, don&#8217;t have the fully crystallized, baked out plan. So much of product is expiration like this, right?  </p>



<p>I think the people, honestly, I&#8217;m side baring and squiring on this, but like the people that kind of think they got the perfect thing, I go one, you might be a genius. Cool. Congratulations. Number two, you&#8217;re probably pretty rare the rest of us trying&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> to figure it out. Yep, yep. And I mean, and time March is on, like I was, somebody asked on Twitter, uh, I don&#8217;t remember what happened to your first product or something.  </p>



<p>Um, and, and I was like, I, I got up to, through, through the discussion, I was like, I got up to thousands of users but could never figure out how to monetize and. And the person I was talking with was like, I, that, that&#8217;s how, how, how is that possible? Mm-hmm. . And it&#8217;s like, well it was email-based. It was a product, so [01:11:00] you couldn&#8217;t really run ads, which was his good suggestion.  </p>



<p>Um, it was a product for people who had no money, , so you don&#8217;t wanna sell to people who have no money. Um, you know, and, and the technology of sending lots of emails was expensive and all this stuff. So it was like, there were all these things at the time, whereas, I could build it better now for much cheaper and could probably figure out how to monetize based on new patterns that have emerged and stuff like that.  </p>



<p>So there&#8217;s, you know, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s all of those dimensions. Like even if you&#8217;re a genius, um, you know, and come up with the perfect product, the perfect time, like, you&#8217;ve still gotta keep those, the, you know, there&#8217;s wear and tear. If you build the perfect car and you&#8217;re rolling down the road, good for you.  </p>



<p>But there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s wear and tear. There&#8217;s also gonna be other people that go, oh, I can build a car like that and start racing you. I mean, all these things that compound [01:12:00] over time. Mm-hmm. . It took me a long time to understand the time aspect of a lot of what we do both in business and even in like programming and stuff like that of um, you know, and to get technical for a minute.  </p>



<p>Like there&#8217;s, uh, you know, when you click on something that triggers an event within a website, but technically there&#8217;s a number of events, you know, mouse down versus mouse click versus, you know, da da da da da. And all of these things happen in an order, and most, a lot of it&#8217;s, um, fixed now. But there was a time when different browsers would put mouse down before mouse click, you know, or the other way around.  </p>



<p>It&#8217;s like just this other level of thinking that I was able to abstract and now look at also in the context of building product and building business and whatnot of you&#8217;ve. You&#8217;ve got the people involved, you&#8217;ve got the ideas, you&#8217;ve got all this stuff. But tomorrow the landscape might be different. If somebody else comes [01:13:00] out with a plugin that does or doesn&#8217;t do, or proves or doesn&#8217;t prove everything we&#8217;re talking about, we, we have to adjust all of our thinking, you know?  </p>



<p>Mm-hmm. , which was honestly half the fun,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> but I like your positive spin on that. . I like it. It&#8217;s cause you know, we&#8217;re doing this in public and you&#8217;re like, yeah, somebody go, okay, cool. Thank you for getting me that way. I&#8217;m gonna go do this. You know? Um, and that&#8217;s the, that&#8217;s part of playing this game. Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> I mean, and we, as we&#8217;ve talked about, we have the luxury of, we, we are not desperate.  </p>



<p>We do not need this to succeed tomorrow. Um, and I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve definitely, I have been in that seat. I put myself in that seat years ago, um, counted on like, oh, the, my next product has to succeed, or I can&#8217;t pay rent, and I [01:14:00] made no good decisions. Mm-hmm. . And so for me, that&#8217;s, I, I know people who work better under pressure.  </p>



<p>I do not. And so for me, that&#8217;s, I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve worked long and hard to get to a position of luxury entitlement, privilege, uh, knowledge and experience where I can build product or play this game, like you said, under the circumstances that are best for me. Mm-hmm. . And I think that that&#8217;s, that only comes with time and experience.  </p>



<p>Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> It&#8217;s good timing for both of us because I&#8217;ve painfully, you know, trodden this path for a long time. You know, like, I don&#8217;t know if I told you the story back buddy, but we can do that next week. But you know, so much of this, it felt like high stakes poker in a sense of, in the past for me, because we were a product company and trying to dial this stuff in, [01:15:00] felt so much like art and not science.  </p>



<p>Um, I still think it&#8217;s a blend of those two, art and science where Oh, sure. Like if I hadn&#8217;t had you and we&#8217;re doing this, talking this through, I would&#8217;ve went into a different direction that probably wouldn&#8217;t have been right. But because I had you, cuz like for instance, you grounded me back to let&#8217;s, let&#8217;s concentrate on the, the foundation.  </p>



<p>I was like, ding, ding, thank you for the grounding. Mm-hmm. . And like, then we real quickly got what that should be. You&#8217;ve surprised me and already been doing some of that work and it&#8217;s like that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s where we need to be right&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> now. And I&#8217;ve been desperate to work with somebody for years. You know, I&#8217;ve pretty much always been the solopreneur, solo founder, solo builder.  </p>



<p>Yeah. And have often had wonderful people around me willing to ha you know, be in to mastermind with me. Um, you [01:16:00] know, but to have somebody who at least right now is 50 50, um, is, is a whole different experience and, you know, and exceedingly valuable. I definitely, yeah. I feel like we&#8217;ve arrived at a lot of things faster than either one of us would have.  </p>



<p>Had we had I just been over here banging away at Yeah. The plugin that you asked me for and I was thinking about, but was like, well, you know, is this, is this, I&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> think too, sorry, I didn&#8217;t mean to cut you off. No, go, go, go. I, I think too, I want to give you a real gratitude in this is like, because of your experiences, Uh, a lot of developers I&#8217;ve worked with, um, there&#8217;s high idealism and I really love that.  </p>



<p>I value that. And then, but you&#8217;ve had enough experiences that go, we can&#8217;t do everything. You know, you know enough about the business and marketing side [01:17:00] that, and how things get done, where I&#8217;m not having to be like, I&#8217;ve had those conversations before and this feels really fluid and I compliment you for that.  </p>



<p>And thank you for being a partner because, you know, oftentimes the way I&#8217;ve experienced is like negative. That&#8217;s why I gave all this caveats when I was like, Hey, I&#8217;m not talking about technical. I don&#8217;t know what the technical, cuz I feel like it&#8217;s been past conversations. Mm-hmm. and I&#8217;m like, I&#8217;m talking conceptually.  </p>



<p>But you get that, you know. Yeah. You&#8217;re like, yeah, we we&#8217;re not in these 30 seconds deciding to do a two month long feature, . We&#8217;re exploring it, trying to make a good decision that&#8217;s best for us. The product, the user. So thank you for that. And that, that&#8217;s experience, Corey, I mean, seriously, as,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> as a dev, it, it is because I was the grumpy programmer in the corner for, there&#8217;s so many, at least a decade, you know,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> and there&#8217;s so many too.  </p>



<p>Like I, that experience and I get it [01:18:00] because you all are brilliant and you can do these things like write code, do this stuff. Like, I&#8217;m like, that&#8217;s another thing I haven&#8217;t accessed. And so, yeah. Sorry I cut you off again, but No, it&#8217;s fine. Saying fine, but I just, I&#8217;m thankful for those experiences, . Yeah. I,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> I don&#8217;t know why so many developers are assholes to be blunt about it.  </p>



<p>Like there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a, a feeling of power. Great. Uh, uh, where that comes from. I don&#8217;t know. I mean, and I, I know where mine came from, uh, but it&#8217;s unique to my upbringing and situation and mentality and all that stuff. And, you know, so it, I, I can&#8217;t imagine that everybody had the same, uh, experiences I did that arrived at this.  </p>



<p>Like, I am genius. You all should bow before me just because I learned to code. Um, but thankfully what, what is interesting to me is, uh, therapy and yeah, uh, getting into [01:19:00] product forced me to learn empathy. I had to, you know, I, I read all the, I showed it last week. I have all the books on graphic design and user interface and don&#8217;t make me think and, uh, all those types of, of books and, um, you know, and so I could design a good product.  </p>



<p>But then the, the product I alluded to a minute ago, from 15 years ago, I had, um, people who, uh, I had grandmothers and very non-technical people, and I had, um, people in, uh, countries where there&#8217;s not much economic, um, structure and whatnot. And, uh, using my pro, that&#8217;s why they were using my product. So basically, instead of mint.com that relied on plugging in all of your banking info.  </p>



<p>I had people in Nepal who were like, we don&#8217;t have bank [01:20:00] accounts, but I would still like to track my spending. Um, so it was kind of a neat little, you know, but I was like, oh, well just, you know, saying to the grandma or saying to somebody who, you know, totally different, um, cultural context. Like, oh, just click on this and click on this.  </p>



<p>And they&#8217;re like, you know, or, or people who only have phones. And so I&#8217;m like, well go to the desktop view. And they&#8217;re like, what? What desktop view or whatever it is, you know? And so I had to learn. Empathy and that I wasn&#8217;t always right. ,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> I think he just hit it. There&#8217;s this level of genius and creativity that so many developers like you have talked to.  </p>



<p>And I&#8217;m like, I value it. We in the world value it. And then there&#8217;s this other side, and I think so many of the developers I know had to go through some crucible to get to like, okay, I need this other side. A genius needs help. You know, like you need a supporting cast. Um, but, and I&#8217;ve seen [01:21:00] enough developers go, you gotta go through this event where you get burned.  </p>



<p>Hmm. Like, you realize like, maybe my shit isn&#8217;t the best. And you get a little humbled. And, and, and I&#8217;m not saying that lightly either. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s probably a very tough experience. I&#8217;ve probably had dozens of those in other areas of my life. Right. Sure. But then learning like, okay, geniuses don&#8217;t operate in the silo.  </p>



<p>They need teams. Yeah. They need people and humans. And then you hit it with the empathy. You pair those two together though, you got something like, I would always kind of say like, I&#8217;m, I, we need a translator because I need you to talk human for a second. Mm-hmm. , because I don&#8217;t understand these things. And I, that was always the role I played.  </p>



<p>I was like, I don&#8217;t understand it, but if I get it, I can help other people get it. Right. A lot of other people get your work, so,&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> and you can sell it. Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Uh, man, thank you for the, for letting us go over. Um, but speaking of therapists, I have mine in six minutes, but, um, and I can [01:22:00] use the bathroom, but dude, I, I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m enjoying this journey with you, my friend.  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Yeah. Right back at you. We&#8217;re gonna have some good luck to your brother.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> We&#8217;re gonna have to find some time this year to get together and hang out. Find a hot tub where it&#8217;s warm or you know, not&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> five degrees, two, two quarries, and two Lindsay&#8217;s in a hot tub. There you go. That&#8217;s the, that&#8217;s the other podcast.  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> That&#8217;s&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> the other podcast thinking the same thing. Just mar marital advice or something.  </p>



<p><strong>cory:</strong> Mine would be what not to do. There you go.&nbsp;  </p>



<p><strong>Corey:</strong> Thanks my friend. Good, good luck to your brother and uh, hope everything sorts itself out. Okay. Enjoy some jello.</p>
<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 15 Mar 2023 21:13:25 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Cory Miller";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:86:"WPTavern: WooCommerce 7.5.0 Introduces 3 New Blocks, Expands Support for Global Styles";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142738";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:96:"https://wptavern.com/woocommerce-7-5-0-introduces-3-new-blocks-expands-support-for-global-styles";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2193:"<p><a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/2023/03/14/woocommerce-7-5-released/">WooCommerce 7.5.0</a> was released this week with three new blocks for the Product Archive templates. These include a new Store Breadcrumb block, Product Results Count block, and a Catalog Sorting block, all seen in action below.</p>



<img />image credit: <a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/2023/03/14/woocommerce-7-5-released/">WooCommerce 7.5.0 Release Post</a>



<p>These blocks were released as part of an effort to <a href="https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce-blocks/issues/8059">&#8220;blockify&#8221; Product Archive templates</a> so that they can more easily be customized with a block experience.</p>



<p>&#8220;We also want to account for the extensibility within this project by researching the mechanism for extensions to extend the templates and implementing a compatibility layer to keep as many extensions as possible working with blockified templates while giving time for extension developers to update and blockify their extensions,&#8221; WooCommerce engineer Tung Du said.</p>



<p>This project also includes support for <a href="https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce-blocks/issues/8062">a Notices block</a> so merchants can display store notices to customers as well as determine where they appear.</p>



<p>WooCommerce 7.5.0 has expanded support for Global Styles, so that the Product Button, Product Rating, and Product Price blocks can now be customized more easily in the Site Editor. The Product Rating block now supports padding controls in Global Styles so that store owners can add more spacing around the blocks.</p>



<p>This release also brings in expanded support for the Style Book, which has been available since the WooCommerce Blocks 9.5.0 release. The Featured Product and Featured Category blocks can now be previewed in the Style Book and have Global Style changes applied.</p>



<p>WooCommerce 7.5.0 includes two database updates, 278 commits to WooCommerce Core, and rolls in 170 commits from the WooCommerce Blocks plugin.</p>



<p><a href="https://woocommerce.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/screenshot-2023-02-02-at-12.11.33.png"></a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:49:01 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:94:"WPTavern: #67 – Talisha Lewallen on How CertifyWP Is Hoping To Offer WordPress Certification";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=142702";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:108:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/67-talisha-lewallen-on-how-certifywp-is-hoping-to-offer-wordpress-certification";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48696:"Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, what a WordPress certification might look like.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice, or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your ideas featured on the show.</p>



<p>Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and you use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today we have Talisha Lewallen.</p>



<p>You might have found your way into WordPress intentionally, or perhaps you stumbled across it and decided to explore further. Whichever it was, you&#8217;ve learned things along the way. Some of it might have been through training, but there&#8217;s likely been some self discovery on the way as well.</p>



<p>Perhaps you&#8217;re a coder, or a designer. In fact, there are dozens of different pathways in the WordPress ecosystem. Given the broad range of knowledge you might possess, how can you prove that you know what you know?</p>



<p>Many industries provide training programs which, when completed successfully, allow you to assert that you were competent in a given area. You&#8217;d want your lawyer or surgeon to have passed through the appropriate programs of study, so that they&#8217;re equipped to do the work.</p>



<p>With WordPress being such a dominant force in the world of websites. Would it be a good idea to have a certification for WordPress? Talisha certainly thinks so, and has founded CertifyWP to try to make that happen.</p>



<p>We approach this subject through the work that she&#8217;s been doing at WPConnects, in which she&#8217;s been trying to provide training to military veterans, so that on the departure from the services they have the prospect of finding work in the WordPress space.</p>



<p>We talk about whether there&#8217;s a need for certification for WordPress and how such a certification would come about. What levels of training does Talisha see as essential, and how many such layers might there be?</p>



<p>We discuss whether the WordPress community is ready for a third party to be certifying people&#8217;s abilities, and whether this strays away from the approach that we&#8217;ve had so far in which routes into employment have relied on other, less formal, methods.</p>



<p>Later in the podcast, we talk about the structure of CertifyWP, and who&#8217;s behind the project. You&#8217;ll hear that it&#8217;s not just Talisha. There&#8217;s quite a few members of the WordPress community who want this project to succeed.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re curious about certifications in the WordPress space, this podcast is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Talisha Lewallen.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast today by Talisha Lewallen, Hello Talisha.</p>



<p>[00:04:00] Talisha Lewallen: Hi Nathan.</p>



<p>[00:04:02] Nathan Wrigley: Very nice to meet with you. You&#8217;re welcome on the podcast. Thank you for joining us. Would you mind just introducing yourself and give us some indication of what you do, perhaps who you work for, and how come you are in any way connected with WordPress?</p>



<p>[00:04:18] Talisha Lewallen: Yes. I am Talisha Lewallen. And I am the owner of WPConnects, which is a company that helps US military veterans or really any veterans, but helps them receive training while they&#8217;re active duty, and then when they&#8217;re separating from the military we provide them with mentors and help them find employment within WordPress.</p>



<p>And then I&#8217;ve also started this new venture with some very amazing people within the WordPress community called CertifyWP Foundation. And that is where we are creating a couple of WordPress credentials.</p>



<p>[00:04:51] Nathan Wrigley: So we&#8217;re going to talk about both of those endeavors today, but I think probably the correct road into both of those subjects is if we begin with WPConnects. Now, you mentioned that this is a company that you are the founder of. It&#8217;s got a mission, it&#8217;s connected with the military, but in broad outline really, it&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s an endeavor to connect people who are looking for work and are in need of guidance. Do you just want to tell us how all this started and what really the bedrock, the core philosophy is, and who you are helping and how you are helping?</p>



<p>[00:05:26] Talisha Lewallen: Yeah. So I worked at Post Status for a little while, and while we were over there, we kept hearing a lot of people state that they really needed some trained WordPress developers and employees. And so that really got us thinking, you know, it&#8217;s one of those twist of fate things, that we ran into a gentleman named Hector who has a similar company to WPConnects.</p>



<p>And he&#8217;s definitely been a very big mentor to me. So when service members go in and sign up to join the military, a lot of times they&#8217;ve never had an interview, they&#8217;ve never had job experience, they&#8217;re literally just starting their career. Well, when they get out there are transferable skills, but not a lot employers are looking for, if that makes sense. So we want to provide them with, it&#8217;s called transitioning assistance. And we want to provide them with that training and so it helps them transition into the civilian sector a lot easier. There&#8217;s different skills that, you know, we do over here. And then we&#8217;re training them for WordPress front end and backend development.</p>



<p>And if they wanted to do anything else in WordPress. You know, it&#8217;s really expanding past just developer careers. And so we&#8217;re just really helping them find the right connections, along with mentors who have been where they&#8217;ve been and can help them transition and really just know that experience.</p>



<p>And so it really just comes from a place of, I have several members in my family that were in the military, and seeing them transition out of the military was kind of hard. I took the general route over here and I went to high school, college and then started my professional career and seeing my family members and friends join the military, and then when they get out and they had these amazing jobs in the military. They had all of this training and then they get out and they can&#8217;t even get a job.</p>



<p>I heard one of my friends tell me the story of a gentleman who was a military police officer and couldn&#8217;t get a job as a police officer here in the States. And it&#8217;s because he didn&#8217;t have, in that town, you had to have an associate&#8217;s degree. So he didn&#8217;t have the training to become a police officer when that&#8217;s all he did for 10 years in the military, was be a police officer.</p>



<p>And so it&#8217;s very interesting to see the skills that they have and the jobs that these men and women have had, and then transferring it into civilian life. It&#8217;s just not, or hasn&#8217;t been there. They&#8217;ve just been struggling to find these employment. And so we&#8217;re really just reaching out a hand and saying, let us help you and let us get you introduced to these amazing people inside of WordPress. WordPress has the best community that I have ever been a part of, and so it really just seems like a good fit for them.</p>



<p>[00:08:04] Nathan Wrigley: Can I ask, do you give them a curriculum which they follow? In other words, have you mapped out, in the same way that a university may do, you know, you&#8217;d attend a university and you would fully expect that they would provide you with the course and they&#8217;re not just making it up on the fly? Or is it more working with them to try and figure out what they need? It might be a mixture of both. I don&#8217;t know.</p>



<p>[00:08:25] Talisha Lewallen: Yeah, so how we do it, we have three pathways right now. And this is what makes WPConnects very unique, even within the military training field. So there&#8217;s a saying in the military that&#8217;s crawl, walk, run. So you&#8217;re not just going to get something and immediately start running. So our steps for crawl, walk, run are these three pathways.</p>



<p>The first one is the credentialing assistance program. Active duty and reserve military personnel are able to take a credential and it is funded through the military, so it does not cost them a dime. And they&#8217;re able to take this training. So we currently have the web foundation associate credential. And this is also where CertifyWP comes in.</p>



<p>So currently we&#8217;re using that WFA course. So once they complete that and they decide to transition out of the military. It could be the next month, whenever their service contract&#8217;s up. It can be two, three years later. Whenever they are transitioning out in the last 180 days of their service contract, they can join what&#8217;s called a Skill Bridge program.</p>



<p>So we also have a WordPress Skill Bridge program. This program is an instructor-led 12 week course. And it&#8217;s all over the US. We do it over Zoom, and we&#8217;re looking at a few other platforms. But again, it&#8217;s that instructor is there. There is a curriculum, and they are learning how to, mostly that one is backend development, is what they&#8217;re learning currently.</p>



<p>And then whenever they finish that, we just opened up an apprenticeship program in Texas. And we&#8217;re about to open one in Oklahoma. And so it&#8217;s just this three step process. The apprenticeship program, they have certain skills that they will acquire throughout the year long apprenticeship program. And then they are 100% ready to be employed and be able to do any job that they&#8217;re really wanting to do, because we will give them that individualized skill.</p>



<p>And through all of that, they have a mentor that they can reach out to, and the mentors reach out to them and just help them with anything they&#8217;re struggling with or have questions about. There&#8217;s different terminology that we use in civilian life than they&#8217;ve used in the military. And so really that person&#8217;s just to be there, to just have a helping hand.</p>



<p>But yeah, it&#8217;s a little bit of both. We have a pathway, we have curriculum. And we do change our curriculum. We get feedback from other people within WordPress. Nikki with Liquid Web has been the biggest help for our Skill Bridge program. She comes through and interviews and mock interviews just about every person we have in our programs and helps give us feedback so we can help them gain those interview skills. We have them write a resume and then I go through and help them work on their resume, so then they have that resume whenever they get out as well.</p>



<p>[00:10:59] Nathan Wrigley: I guess if you are in a different industry, there may already have been for a great deal of time, there may have been institutions or pathways like this already set up. You mentioned the example there of the police and that pathway not really working out. But presumably there are other ways that people leaving the military can go and there&#8217;s things that are already concrete. Institutions that they can join. Companies that they can join. Programs that they can go through. But not in the WordPress space.</p>



<p>And given WordPress&#8217; 43, and counting, percent share of the internet, it&#8217;s a really credible career to go in, but it&#8217;s a difficult thing to, I would imagine, to even understand. If you&#8217;ve never touched the internet before, apart from being a user and a consumer of the web, you may have no skills or whatsoever.</p>



<p>So I&#8217;m guessing it&#8217;s bridging that gap. Trying to persuade people that actually there&#8217;s a job in here. It&#8217;s an in demand job. Can be well paid and a good career path, and there&#8217;s a nice community behind it all as well.</p>



<p>[00:11:57] Talisha Lewallen: Right. And you know, we have some people that are literally, I&#8217;ve never touched a computer before. But we also have people that come through the program that have been a part of the satellite operations within the military, or have done tech in the military. But getting that pathway to employment is what they really need. And learning WordPress. There&#8217;s a lot that goes into WordPress that we want our individuals to learn and that will help them grow within whatever job they decide to do. But yeah, so we have two opposite ends of the spectrum usually. We have the ones that have a ton of tech experience, or the ones that have no tech experience.</p>



<p>[00:12:33] Nathan Wrigley: So that was a really nice introduction into the why really, for the next bit of the podcast, which I think will consume the rest of the show. So we&#8217;re going to talk now, instead of talking about WPConnects, we&#8217;re going to talk about credentialing in the WordPress space. And maybe I&#8217;ll begin this way.</p>



<p>If I were to attend a university that everybody&#8217;s heard of, let&#8217;s say I&#8217;ve been to, I don&#8217;t know, Harvard or Cambridge or somewhere like that. That credential that you hold, it&#8217;s a real passport. Everybody understands what that means, and you present it to employers and they get, okay. Right, you&#8217;ve been to a university, we know what that university is about. We understand that it&#8217;s been around for a while and, that&#8217;s a credible piece of paper that you are holding. But curiously, in the tech space, there are things like this, but specifically in the WordPress space, there&#8217;s nothing like this.</p>



<p>There&#8217;s a great big hole there, isn&#8217;t there? So people who wish to be employed, going to an employer, you really are relying on testimonials, the CV, the reputation that you&#8217;ve got from your previous employer, and the letters that they may write on your behalf. But there&#8217;s no bit of paper that you can hold, going in cold, to say, I&#8217;ve done this. Look, there it is. It&#8217;s certifiable. This is what I&#8217;ve achieved.</p>



<p>[00:13:51] Talisha Lewallen: Yes. And you know, that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re kind of finding out on both ways. Having a credential helps both employers and people looking for employment, especially within the WordPress space, without having that credential. There&#8217;s a lot of people that I would say could very well do certain jobs. But because there&#8217;s not that level of credentialing and there&#8217;s not that standard education.</p>



<p>What does a WordPress developer mean? What can you do if you say you&#8217;re a WordPress developer? And that&#8217;s what a lot of companies are running into. So it really is almost word of mouth. Sometimes I feel like I should say that it&#8217;s almost word of mouth for you to get hired, because somebody&#8217;s worked with you and knows your level of skill. If you&#8217;re new to the WordPress space, it could possibly be harder to find a job because nobody knows who you are, your work ethic and what your skillset is.</p>



<p>[00:14:39] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So that&#8217;s the premise behind all of this. So I guess I should ask at the beginning, what level are you going in at? Because really in the WordPress space, we could probably come up with 50 curricular that people could follow, probably more. We could have things on the hosting side, speed optimization, SEO, backend WordPress. The sky&#8217;s the limit, but I&#8217;m presuming. That in the scenario that you are dealing with, mainly it&#8217;s getting started?</p>



<p>[00:15:08] Talisha Lewallen: You know, that&#8217;s the interesting thing. So we, so we have the advisory board. I should say, whenever I first decided this is something I want to do, I really want to make this credential. I reached out to several people, because I kept hearing nos and yeses, and so we put together a team of an advisory board and we had this conversation.</p>



<p>Because originally I was thinking about one credential, that would have three tiers. So now we&#8217;ve decided on two. We&#8217;re going to have a front end developer credential and the backend developer credential. So each one will have three tiers. So it starts at base level of here&#8217;s how I download a WordPress. This is how I can add admins. This is how I do, you know, very, very basic.</p>



<p>Then there&#8217;s the next level, and then there&#8217;s the expert level. So to obtain the credential, you must pass, it&#8217;s either one cumulative exam, or you could take it with each course. So you take that exam that has all three tiers of those, and that&#8217;s how you obtain that credential.</p>



<p>And that&#8217;ll be on the backend credential too. It&#8217;ll have that three tiers again, crawl, walk, run. We&#8217;re not going to expect you to be able to do it if you&#8217;ve never been taught the why behind it. So with that being said, one conversation that I had with a gentleman was, well, you know, it almost turned into some people can take tests, but some people can&#8217;t. That doesn&#8217;t mean that they&#8217;re able to do the job. And I said exactly, and that&#8217;s where we are trying to find a way. It&#8217;s still, still alluding me a little bit, but we are trying to find a way to have a practical part to the exam, in the top two tiers.</p>



<p>The first tier exam probably will just be question and answer type exam. But in that expert level, I want there to be a practical part of it. To have people show that, yes, I did learn how to master this skill. And yes, I can do this. And so I think that that&#8217;ll help. Also with the credential and why it&#8217;s, I think, beneficial to WordPress is, you know, WordPress changes sometimes.</p>



<p>We have big changes, we have small changes. So there&#8217;s a certification that you can take. And that can just be a course. Anybody can come up with a course. I could just go to my back room and be like, this is what I think somebody should know for WordPress and create this certification.</p>



<p>And then I never have to re-certify. I never have to go back in and show that my knowledge has not waned, or that I do still know what I&#8217;m doing, and still have that level, just standard level of education. With a credential, there is an advisory board and a board of directors and you have to re-certify every three years, to show that you are still maintaining that knowledge. So it&#8217;s not 10 years down the road, oh look, I took this and I&#8217;m still here. You&#8217;re able to show that you still maintain that level of credentialing.</p>



<p>[00:17:53] Nathan Wrigley: That&#8217;s an industry practice that I&#8217;ve seen before, especially in things like networking. And I mean networking in the sense of cables and connecting routers. The organizations often behind that will require you to come back after a given period of time and re-certify yourself. Just because otherwise that credential kind of loses all meaning, because the technology itself has moved on so far in the three, four however many years. That if you claim to know from 10 years ago what&#8217;s required to be known today, there could be a complete mismatch. Okay, that&#8217;s really interesting to know.</p>



<p>[00:18:25] Talisha Lewallen: There&#8217;s been a lot of thought that went into this credentialing. Along with having, you know, just what I would consider WordPress experts that are being there and really talking about what they feel somebody should know in the WordPress for each level of the credentialing.</p>



<p>But, let&#8217;s see. I think JavaScript has a credential that you have to re-certify. If you&#8217;re a nurse, here in the US you have to re-certify your knowledge. Car mechanics. You know, so there&#8217;s a lot of credentialing out there in every industry that does have that continuing education piece. Just because things do change, the world changes so much, and it&#8217;s very beneficial.</p>



<p>[00:18:58] Nathan Wrigley: So given that you are hoping to find people who wish to take these credentials. Is it open to anybody? We know that your background was connecting with people leaving the military. Is the intention of CertifyWP, and of course I should have mentioned the URL. The URL that you&#8217;ll go to, which of course I&#8217;ll put in the the show notes is certifywp.com, as you&#8217;d imagine, it&#8217;s all spelled in the typical way. No, no underscores or anything like that. Is the intention that these certifications will be open to everybody? Or is there a subset of people? What&#8217;s the audience for this?</p>



<p>[00:19:37] Talisha Lewallen: So the audience for the credential is everybody. CertifywP is for anybody and everybody to take. Our hope would be that companies start looking at their credential and stating that, yes, I want to hire people that have this credential because we know they have this baseline education. So it is open to every single person.</p>



<p>The baseline, the level one certifications I hope to get into some smaller communities. I live here in Oklahoma and so there&#8217;s a lot of Indian capital technology centers and stuff like that, that I would really like them to start taking these credentials and really trying to help the minority groups get more into WordPress as well.</p>



<p>But one thing that has confused a lot of people, and I have to say that this is definitely my fault. I expect everybody to be on my brainwave sometimes. The mention of the DoD, the Department of Defense has thrown a lot of people off. And so they think that this is just a credential for the military and that is really the farthest from it.</p>



<p>And I just have not fully been able to explain that to everybody. But the DoD approving the credential comes in for WPConnects, so that we can train our military. Instead of using that web foundation associate credential, we will use our WordPress credentialing to train them. So they will be trained from the bottom up in WordPress. So that&#8217;s where that has came in. But CertifyWP is open to everybody to take.</p>



<p>[00:21:03] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so just to clarify that. There was a hoop that you had to jump through in order to receive money from the government to train people from the military, but the training is ostensibly the same, but there&#8217;s that slightly strange mixed messaging there. Have I parsed that right?</p>



<p>[00:21:20] Talisha Lewallen: Yes, yeah. And that&#8217;s all it is, is for our military members to be able to take the training where the government pays for it. They have educational grants and stipends in the Army and Air Force, especially here in the US that they don&#8217;t have to take those, they don&#8217;t have to pay for those credentialing. So for us, for them to be able to use those monies, our credential has to be approved through the DoD.</p>



<p>[00:21:43] Nathan Wrigley: Speaking of money, that&#8217;s an interesting segue for a minute. Is the intention for this then to have a fee bound to it? In other words, if you want to take this credential and receive the training materials and the time of the tutors and all of that, that there&#8217;ll be a fee attached to it? And, if that&#8217;s the case, do you have plans to have scholarships and things like that? Is there any of that afoot even as an idea?</p>



<p>[00:22:07] Talisha Lewallen: Yes. That&#8217;s, you know, partly why we actually turned CertifyWP into a nonprofit, is so that we can offer those scholarships. For the credential to be, I almost want to be, say accepted into definitely DoD standards. But if we ever get it accredited, either, there has to be certain qualifications that credentialing meets.</p>



<p>So we&#8217;re trying to set up CertifyWP credentials to meet the qualifications for, one, the DoD, but also if we ever do decide to get it accredited. And one of them is that it has to meet the standard for financial costs. So, I think there&#8217;s even a PHP credential, but the other tech credentials out there, ours will have to match that price.</p>



<p>But we are going to be able to scholarship people in. That is definitely our hope. Because again, we don&#8217;t want this to be a gatekeeping thing of you have to pay to play. Not everybody can do that. And so we definitely want to work with people and companies on just trying to get this credential out to the community and making it affordable for every person.</p>



<p>And there are ways to do that. The board hasn&#8217;t fully decided on one and cost has not even been mentioned yet, just other than the fact that we have to have one and it has to meet an industry standard. But yes, definitely trying to find a way to cut costs down for just the regular person is something that we are looking at, because it can be, they can be quite expensive. And I know that that&#8217;s been a talk within, that I&#8217;ve seen in the Post Status Slack channels before. Whenever somebody moved CertifyWP into one of the channels, somebody was like, oh, here we go, gatekeeping. And oh, it&#8217;s going to cost so much and stuff like that.</p>



<p>And it&#8217;s a very good concern and conversation to have. But our whole intention, and I don&#8217;t want to speak for everybody on the board or advisory board, but isn&#8217;t to keep it away from people. We want everybody to be able to take it. So we are finding ways to really scholarship and bring people in.</p>



<p>[00:24:01] Nathan Wrigley: So we&#8217;ve talked about the audience, well, one of the audiences or one of the, one of the spokes of the wheel, if you like, for you. But of course there&#8217;s another side to this, and I&#8217;m, imagining that you really are a bridge between the people who want to be certified and the people who subsequently want to receive the wisdom that you&#8217;ve given them, the certification.</p>



<p>In other words, the employers, the people who are going to be employing the people out the other end. And presumably that&#8217;s going to be a challenge that you&#8217;re going to face as well, is convincing businesses that look the certificate that we&#8217;ve given them the certification that they&#8217;ve gone through and achieved actually means something. And I&#8217;m guessing there&#8217;s going to be quite a lot of your time spent making those people aware that it really is bonafide.</p>



<p>[00:24:46] Talisha Lewallen: Yes. That&#8217;s where having the DoD backing, and also possibly getting it accredited shows that this is a real credential. There are people out there that do see that this credential is a massive benefit. So with that, for us there&#8217;s different ways to get it DoD approved, I should say.</p>



<p>And the easiest way is to have community buy-in. So having those companies state that yes, I do see a need for this education level and to have credentialing. So that&#8217;s where on the website we have the endorsement letters. And I know Sophia Desrosiers has been making some phone calls and we have a couple of people that have been reaching out to companies and explaining what we&#8217;re really doing.</p>



<p>Because we&#8217;re trying to get those endorsement letters because that will help us get it DoD approved. It&#8217;s just showing that there is a need in the community for a credential. Not even our credential. It&#8217;s one of those fun little things, but it&#8217;s just saying that there is a need in the community.</p>



<p>And I definitely think once we get our credentials up and running and people start seeing what we have in there, and the education. I really think that a lot of companies will come around to it. The ones that I&#8217;ve talked to so far, I talked to one that was a little hesitant and I love that he booked a meeting with me and talked to me about his concerns, and that I was able to, I don&#8217;t want to say that I argued my point, just was able to genuinely share what we are trying to do at CertifyWP, which is just to make a community built and maintain credential.</p>



<p>And he ended up signing our endorsement letter, and I absolutely loved it. But I loved that space to be able to fully explain what we&#8217;re doing and how we&#8217;re setting up the credential to really benefit not only employers, but the job seeker.</p>



<p>[00:26:29] Nathan Wrigley: It&#8217;s a virtuous cycle in a way, isn&#8217;t it? In that if you get people on board and you can take them through the whole process and then they are ultimately employed, and the employers are happy that they can hit the ground running at whatever level that may be. That has a sort of feedback loop to it, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>



<p>After a period of time, the employers will broadcast that message. It will presumably encourage people who are looking for a way to be certified in tech, to hop on board and on it goes. So yeah, that&#8217;s going to quite an important part. So you are reaching out to those people and you&#8217;re hoping to get some more on board to bolster the whole enterprise.</p>



<p>[00:27:07] Talisha Lewallen: Yeah, we definitely need more endorsement letters from the community. It could be individuals or companies. The companies are what really the DoD is looking for. But just showing the need in the community. And like I said, I&#8217;ve talked to quite a few either hiring managers or companies that have sat here and said, you know, I put out a job description and I need a WordPress developer. And then I pay them the salary and they come in and they can&#8217;t do what we need them to do.</p>



<p>But on their resume it looked fine. And they were able to say these things, but they didn&#8217;t have the education that they needed. So then it costs the company more money to have to train this person to be able to get them up to this level, to where if we are able to train them and then you&#8217;re able to hire them, and you know they passed this, I hate to say they passed the test, but they&#8217;re able to show that their competency is there. It saves companies time and money on hiring.</p>



<p>[00:28:00] Nathan Wrigley: Speaking of the test, you mentioned that in some scenarios it may be like a written paper or something like that, but presumably the higher up you go on the ladder of difficulty, the more need there will be for practical implementations. And you said that there was still room to be, you&#8217;re still trying to figure all that out, and work out what that path might be, but I guess that&#8217;d be an interesting subject to pause on for a moment.</p>



<p>What are your thoughts around that? Testing in some kind of platform that allows you to do code examples on the screen, live. Those kind of things. Just essentially making sure that it&#8217;s legit, it&#8217;s bonafide, and that the people that are doing it are actually doing it. You could be bringing them into test centres. There&#8217;s all sorts of permutations here, isn&#8217;t there?</p>



<p>[00:28:41] Talisha Lewallen: Exactly. And that&#8217;s where, right now, I&#8217;m looking at LMSs, Learning Management Systems to put the coursework, but also the exam on. And so I&#8217;ve been talking a lot with these companies about what this exam could look like with this practical application. And what I hear a lot, and even this has been suggested in conversations with the advisory board is almost having like a capstone, or a project that they complete after they take the written assessment. In having this practical that they turn in.</p>



<p>And that is always an option, and we might have to go to that. I&#8217;m leery about that because then we will have to train and hire people to look at these capstone projects if you will. And determine if somebody has passed or failed it. And so then you run into, well maybe I got somebody that graded my capstone or my project harder than person B.</p>



<p>I really shy away from that type of stuff and I&#8217;d rather have it be computer generated. It&#8217;s unbiased. There&#8217;s just so many ways you can set that up to where there&#8217;s not that fault in there. So definitely the back end and coding one, there will be sides once you get higher up for you to actually code. I&#8217;m not a coder, so I don&#8217;t want to sit here and use terminology that I don&#8217;t understand myself.</p>



<p>But there is that practical part in there where you&#8217;re actually going to go in there and you&#8217;re going to do it. The front end side&#8217;s going to look, you know, a little bit differently, but still, I&#8217;m not a test taker, but I can perform the task and I can do the job generally.</p>



<p>But then you have other people, and I always use the example of my sister. I love her to death. She&#8217;s very, very smart. And she could take a test like nobody&#8217;s business, but that doesn&#8217;t always mean that she can do the work that she just tested on. It just means that she can have really good memory recollection. But doing the task is not something that is there all the time.</p>



<p>And so we really want to hit both sides. As well as companies having the confidence that when they hire somebody with this credential, they know that they passed the practical part and they can do it. And so it&#8217;s really just trying to find out the best, we&#8217;ll say best, most efficient, cost effective way to really have this and what is best for everybody.</p>



<p>Because what I really don&#8217;t want to get into is somebody sitting there and saying, well, I didn&#8217;t pass the exam because of, you know, X, Y, Z. And it ended up, it could have been human error. Computers have errors too, and we can work with that. But I just want to take the human error side out of it.</p>



<p>[00:31:07] Nathan Wrigley: I can imagine there&#8217;s going to be a subset of people listening to this podcast who will be thinking there should be no canonical certification in WordPress. We should be open to go wherever we choose. It feels like you would like this to have some sort of backing, if you like. Community backing, if nothing else. Not necessarily official backing. But you&#8217;d like this to become a baseline. Something that anybody can aspire to, and anybody can see within the community that this is something which represents a decent beginning if you like.</p>



<p>Not really sure I&#8217;ve phrased that question particularly well, but what I&#8217;m trying to say is that there&#8217;s going to be some people who say, why do we need this? What&#8217;s the point when we&#8217;ve been getting along just fine for many, many years? We don&#8217;t want one player dominating the market in accreditation and certifications. So we&#8217;ll just speak to that for a minute.</p>



<p>[00:32:00] Talisha Lewallen: Yeah. I&#8217;ve had this conversation, it actually might have been on Bob&#8217;s podcast. And through a conversation that I had with somebody else, it got brought up to why CertifyWP. Why should a third party be able to have this credentialing instead of either the hosting companies or Automattic themselves, whichever way you want to look at it.</p>



<p>Why should this third party be able to do it? And my answer is always, why not? We are able to have this just absolutely community built and maintained. I think it gives us the freedom is what I should say. It gives us the freedom to be able to keep it unbiased as possible, to where it benefits the most people that we can.</p>



<p>Not everybody&#8217;s going to be happy with it, no matter what we do, and that&#8217;s fine. We&#8217;re here to help the most people that we can. So having it community built and maintained just allows for a little bit more freedom to get the information that we see as a community that people need to learn, and have to be able to do the jobs that we are hiring them for, or that we want them to do.</p>



<p>And so my example, if you go onto Fiverr, and again, I&#8217;m not dissing anybody that works on Fiverr or does websites. It is a great platform for you to be able to get contract work. But when you look on there and you look at a WordPress developer, I need a WordPress website. There are, I mean, it seems like thousands of people out there that are like, oh, I&#8217;m a WordPress expert.</p>



<p>And I even saw a couple that were I&#8217;m certified in WordPress. And I&#8217;m like, no you&#8217;re not, because there&#8217;s not one. It&#8217;s one of those that people that are just an average Joe that&#8217;s trying to get their website built is not going to know about the community. That we don&#8217;t already have this certification. That we don&#8217;t already have all of this baseline knowledge. They&#8217;re not going to know.</p>



<p>And so this credential allows even contractors to hire the right person and know that they have been certified, and that they know what they&#8217;re doing and they know what they&#8217;re going to get out of the product based off of that. So it really, it&#8217;s really just this, I keep going back to community built and maintained, because I want, I really want everybody to know it&#8217;s not us sitting here saying that, oh, we have the master knowledge and we, we know what everybody needs, because we don&#8217;t.</p>



<p>And that&#8217;s where we are willing to hear your side and your opinion and really build the credential that the community needs and is going to use and finds the most benefit out of. We&#8217;re coming from a very big place of love and light and you know, trying just to help. And you know, that&#8217;s just really where we&#8217;re at at this point.</p>



<p>[00:34:28] Nathan Wrigley: With that conversation in mind, have you had any collisions with the use of WordPress, because obviously WordPress, the word is a trademark. I noticed that you&#8217;re calling it CertifyWP, so you&#8217;ve, you&#8217;ve sidestep that one, but I wonder if there are any collisions there that need to be avoided.</p>



<p>[00:34:49] Talisha Lewallen: So, so far, I&#8217;ll say now, we have been in contact with Josepha and Matt Mullenweg has been on some email chains. I have not personally got to speak to Matt about these, but Michelle Frechette, fantastic woman, and saves my life every day, I swear. Michelle, and myself had a meeting with Josepha and we sat down and we explained what we are trying to, and it really, I mean it was a very positive conversation in my opinion.</p>



<p>And so it was never brought up that, I&#8217;d hate to say that, you know, we get trademark or you know, cease and desist, but it was really, they were just trying to figure out where they wanted their position to be and that they would get back to us.</p>



<p>And that was around December and, you know, you got to love the holidays and everything else. But so far, no. But we are definitely wanting to also work with everybody with inside WordPress. So we would never want to do anything that Matt or Josepha would think that was not appropriate to the point of wanting us to cease and desist or whatever else.</p>



<p>And I also know that there&#8217;s another company, I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s public knowledge, so I don&#8217;t want to just like throw it out there. But there is another company that is building or hoping to build a top tier credential. So it would be like our credentialing, and then you would be able to take theirs.</p>



<p>And that would allow participants who had that credential to be hired by these absolutely massive corporations that are in WordPress. There are very large companies that use WordPress and they need a certain type of developer and security knowledge. And so that level of credentialing would take it one step above ours.</p>



<p>And since that company works with those high level companies, they would be the best fit to be able to create that level of credentialing. I mean, that&#8217;s the fun thing. The credentialing is coming. It&#8217;s been talked about a lot and I&#8217;m excited for the growth. I&#8217;m excited for the next couple of years to see where these credentials really take us as a community. But yeah, no, so far the conversations we&#8217;ve had with, I&#8217;ll say the powers that be, have been very positive.</p>



<p>[00:36:50] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. It&#8217;s just nice to hear that you&#8217;ve had those conversations because obviously that would be an area of, uh, of concern if you hadn&#8217;t, so at least that, that&#8217;s been put on the table, shall we say. You mentioned community a few times there, and it might be an interesting moment just to wrap this up to talk about the people that are involved and what have you.</p>



<p>So, Talisha, there&#8217;s obviously you. But you&#8217;ve got a whole bunch of other people on board. Do you just want to give us a bit of a name drop on who&#8217;s involved so far. And I guess an ancillary question to that is, are you still open for other people to join and lead certain areas, and be involved? Is this still a group which is welcoming community members in to help?</p>



<p>[00:37:30] Talisha Lewallen: Yes. So right now our advisory board and I always say this like, oh, sorry if I forget anybody. I always feel so bad. Because we have added people on in the last little bit. So we have Courtney Robertson, we have Gabriel Cohen of PMC. Jess Frick from Pressable. Michelle Frechette, love her. And we also have Nikki Bulmer. So they&#8217;re both from the Liquid Web brand. And then we have Robbie Adair with OS Training, and we just brought on Zach Stepek, and we brought him on because once we started talking about, okay, we needed the front end and the back end credential. All of us are talking about the front end, and I said, okay, so what do we know about backend?</p>



<p>What do we know about really coding and what do we know about all of this? And we all just kind of sat there and we&#8217;re like, okay, we need to find somebody else that could be that expert in that field. So whenever we find there is a lack of our knowledge, or that we could find somebody that has a little bit more, we are definitely open to bringing them on.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s not that we&#8217;re trying to keep it small, but we want to keep the team progressing. And so when you get too many people, sometimes that can be a hindrance to the progression forward, but we also need to have as many people as we need to get the best product possible as well. So we are still open to certain people. If anybody wants to be involved, definitely reach out. If we have the space and need that area of knowledge, definitely want to do that. And then we have our board of directors. And we are trying to keep the board as separate from the advisory board as possible. There are a few people that are crossing over, just because of their expertise and skills whenever we are putting the board together.</p>



<p>So we have myself, Michelle, Nikki and Jess. But then we also have Rob Howard, and Hans. That is currently our board of directors. We have our first meeting today, actually. I&#8217;m very excited about that. And then we have our next advisory board meeting on Thursday, and we are hoping to get the level, so for the front end credential, the level one course and exam approved by the board and the level two course and exam as well. Very exciting stuff happening this week.</p>



<p>[00:39:50] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it&#8217;s all moving forward, isn&#8217;t it? This is really great. We&#8217;re probably just going to have to round it up in terms of time, but before we do that, if people have been listening to this and they&#8217;d like to find out more, possibly get involved from either direction, whether that&#8217;s from the company side, looking to consume the accreditation, or if somebody would like to be involved in taking the accreditation and wants a little bit more information, where are the best places to go to contact either CertifyWP or just you?</p>



<p>[00:40:18] Talisha Lewallen: Me, you could find me on Post Status Slack. Or you can always hit the contact forms on either website page. They get emailed to myself to either wpconnects.com or certifywp.com. And we are also in Twitter and we now have Tumblr. We just recently got on Tumblr as well. So any of those ways are perfect ways to get ahold of us. Or my email is always a great way, which is just talisha @ wpconnects.com</p>



<p>[00:40:46] Nathan Wrigley: As always, I&#8217;ll put the links that you mentioned into the show notes, so if anybody wants to follow those up, just head over to the WP Tavern website, search for this episode and you should be able to find the links there. So it only remains for me to thank you Talisha for coming on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:41:02] Talisha Lewallen: Well, I very much appreciate you having me and WPConnects and CertifyWP all in one. I know it&#8217;s a lot of information, but I very much appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:41:11] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much indeed.</p>
</div>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/talisha-lewallen-57758b85/">Talisha Lewallen</a>.</p>



<p>You might have found your way into WordPress intentionally, or perhaps you stumbled across it and decided to explore further. Whichever it was, you&#8217;ve learned things along the way. Some of it might have been through training, but there’s likely been some self-discovery on the way as well. Perhaps you’re a coder, or a designer. In fact, there are dozens of different pathways in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>



<p>Given the broad range of knowledge you might possess, how can you prove that you know what you know?</p>



<p>Many industries provide training programs which, when completed successfully, allow you to assert that you are competent in a given area. You’d want your lawyer and surgeon to have passed through the appropriate program of study, so that they’re equipped to do that work.</p>



<p>With WordPress being such a dominant force in the world of websites, would it be a good idea to have a certification for WordPress? Talisha certainly thinks so and has founded <a href="https://certifywp.com/">CertifyWP</a> to try to make that happen.</p>



<p>We approach this subject through the work that she’s been doing at <a href="https://wpconnects.com/">WPConnects</a> in which she’s been trying to provide training to military veterans, so that on their departure from the services, they have the prospect of finding work in the WordPress space.</p>



<p>We talk about whether there is a need for a certification for WordPress and how such a certification would come about. What levels of training does Talisha see as essential, and how many such layers might there be?</p>



<p>We discuss whether the WordPress community is ready for a third party to be certifying people’s abilities and whether this strays away from the approach that we’ve had so far, in which routes into employment have relied upon other, less formal, methods.</p>



<p>Later in the podcast we talk about the structure of CertifyWP and who is behind the project. You’ll hear that it’s not just Talisha, there are quite a few members of the community who want this project to succeed.</p>



<p>If you’re curious about certifications in the WordPress space, this podcast is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links.</h2>



<p><a href="https://wpconnects.com/">WPConnects website</a></p>



<p><a href="https://certifywp.com/">CertifyWP website</a></p>



<p><a href="https://dothewoo.io/wordpress-certification/">Talisha on the Do the Woo podcast</a></p>



<p><a href="https://twitter.com/wp_connects">WPConnects Twitter</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.tumblr.com/wp-connects">WP Connects Tumblr</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:54:"HeroPress: Everybody is a Node: Connecting and Growing";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:56:"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=5400";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:158:"https://heropress.com/essays/everybody-is-a-node-connecting-and-growing/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=everybody-is-a-node-connecting-and-growing";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:21526:"<img width="1024" height="512" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/031423-min.jpg" class="attachment-large size-large wp-post-image" alt="Pull Quote: Everybody you encounter is an opportunity to learn and grow, and when we commit to growing together, we create ecosystems of mutual joy." /><h2 id="h-starting-with-a-definition">Starting with a Definition</h2>



<p>Google defines the term <em>node </em>as “a point at which lines or pathways intersect.”It’s a connecting point. For the use of <em>node</em> in botany, Google offers a second definition: “the part of a plant stem from which one or more leaves emerge.” It’s a point for growth. Today, I’ll provide a third definition that combines the first two. A <em>node </em>is you, me, and everybody, all on our professional and personal journeys through life.</p>



<p>I currently work as an independent product designer, which perfectly combines my interests in culture, business, and the internet. One day, I hope to evolve my practice into a consulting business for Black-owned internet companies. </p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>My path to my current position and future goal has been shaped by points of intersection with everyone I’ve encountered along the way. </p>
</blockquote>



<p>These experiences helped me grow, helped my leaves flourish and my branches stretch further. My pathway collided with others in my field and adjacent areas, and from these interactions, I made connections with mentors, colleagues, and friends.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The business term for this is <em>networking.</em> Something we’re all told to do to move forward in our careers. But making connections is more than just a box to tick on the to-do list of life — it’s the fundamental act that makes our lives worth living.&nbsp;</p>



<p>For me, the journey to a fulfilling life began in an art museum.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 id="h-finding-new-direction">Finding New Direction</h2>



<p>In college, I pursued a degree in Art History. I interned at, and was later employed by, the Philadelphia Museum of Art. I practically lived in that building during my employment, and I loved it. Art is a way to connect with people: when we interpret creative works, we interpret the human experience. Art helps us understand one another and understand ourselves. I thoroughly enjoy immersing myself in the art world consisting of brick-and-mortar museums and galleries. But as it turned out, art became a stepping stone towards my next passion &#8211; the internet.</p>



<p>My brain thrives on projects. I love to create and collaborate, and I’m an idea-engine, always itching to bring my concepts to life. Throughout college, I had aspirations to start a website about art, but struggled to find the best avenue to start. </p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>After graduation when my schedule cleared up, a friend working in software engineering turned me toward WordPress. </p>
</blockquote>



<p>It was for non-developers like me and provided the digital access I craved for my latest project. His advice permanently shifted my trajectory. Without this interaction, I never would’ve found the pathway to realizing my passions with WordPress.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Using WordPress, I developed the arts website I had dreamt of. That site, <em>In-Art</em> was a place to talk about art online &#8211; <em>include, interpret, interact</em>. At that point, WordPress still felt like a hobby — albeit, the hobby that made me feel the most human. I devoted as much time to it as I could, and began seeking out WordPress meetups.</p>



<p>Little did I know at that very first WordPress Meetup, I’d meet the man who would later become my boss. Dan Olson gave a talk on “The Future of WordPress” at my first Philly WordPress meetup. In hindsight, the title feels like a pun from the universe since WordPress became <em>my </em>future. At this event, I also met Jason McClintock, my mentor and the lead designer at DigitalCube. In fact, he’s the one who suggested Dan hire me!&nbsp;</p>



<h2 id="h-verticals">Verticals</h2>



<p>The beauty of networking is two-fold: verticals and horizontals. In the case of Dan and Jason, Jason serves as my vertical. Verticals have the same specialty, like product design, but are at different stages in their journeys, from interns to experts.&nbsp; Your verticals serve as inspirations and guides when you break into the field, since they’ve been there, done that, and lived to tell you how you can do it too.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Once you’re further along in your professional journey, you take over and become the mentor for other newbies. You bestow upon them all your wisdom, like, “This is the best platform to simplify your process” and “splurge for the large coffee on big project days, your sleepy brain will thank you.”</p>



<p>But your verticals are also your competition. Competition doesn’t have to be cutthroat, and should never sway you from interacting with them. </p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>The lessons your verticals will teach you are invaluable, and the act of teaching mentees is fulfilling and enlightening. </p>
</blockquote>



<p>However, logically, if you only interact with people who do what you do, you won’t be meeting the people who <em>need</em> what you do. Fellow UX designers don’t have a need for UX design, they have a need for UX design <em>jobs</em>. Who offers jobs like that? That’s where Horizontals come into play.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 id="h-horizontals">Horizontals&nbsp;</h2>



<p>Horizontals are the people working side by side in the supply chain of a service. Take a website for example — designers collaborate with developers, marketing specialists, content creators, and business owners to create the strongest final product for their future customers. </p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>Unless you’re a multi-talented wizard with no need for sleep and no limit for creativity, it takes <em>every single team member</em> working together to bring excellent large-scale projects into fruition. </p>
</blockquote>



<p>For DigitalCube, Dan was one of my horizontals. Dan’s technical expertise combined well with my passion for networking and public speaking. Together, we created a discovery process for new clients, reworked our events marketing strategy, and improved technical support service.&nbsp;</p>



<p>I’m a people person, and part of what I admire so much about people is how uniquely skilled we are in different ways. Life would be incredibly dull if we all had the same goals, same passions, same drives that make life worth living. Everybody you encounter is an opportunity to learn and grow, and when we commit to growing together, we create ecosystems of mutual joy. There’s an antiquated idea that to be successful, you must work solo. You should be a lone wolf, step on whatever toes necessary to get your foot through the best doors. I wholeheartedly reject that.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Everyone deserves a piece of the pie, and everyone deserves a spot at the table. The horizontals I surround myself with are believers in the power of side-by-side success, in working together to achieve excellence<em> together</em>. This commitment to communal efforts helped me take the leap to finding success and happiness.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 id="h-how-i-leaped-where-i-landed">How I Leaped &amp; Where I Landed&nbsp;</h2>



<p>I dabbled as a digital marking assistant for a few months, but it was a UX bootcamp that really ignited my professional passions. The bootcamp built upon my foundation of WordPress. Before it was even over, I began freelancing by creating elementor websites for others. I started helping entrepreneurs put forth websites that launched their projects and captured their essences through effective, engaging design.&nbsp;</p>



<p>I spend each day actively seeking new clients, growing my portfolio and my abilities with each new project. The clients I work with inspire me and align with my values, an added freedom that comes with entrepreneurship. I’m also preparing business school applications for some point in the future to learn more about finance and management, with the goals of growing a consulting service that will support Black-owned businesses on the web.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Contracting is very fulfilling, and it keeps me connected to the spaces that sparked my passion in the first place. </p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>I continue to attend WordPress meetups and WordCamps, volunteering in any way I can, eager to support the community that motivates me. </p>
</blockquote>



<p>I relish these meetups: sources of learning and growing where I could nerd out about all the WordPress topics I love with a bunch of fellow nerds. Plus, the free swag at WordCamps<em> never </em>hurts. In 2020, I crafted my first WordPress talk, leaning on my love of public speaking. These efforts forged even more connections between myself and the WordPress community. Now, I&#8217;m happy to lead the Philly WordPress Meetup Group, recruiting interesting speakers for our events to help forge more connections for our members.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Shoutouts to some WordPress <em>SUPER-</em>nodes who changed the trajectory of my journey:</p>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilio-garza-13126490/">Emilio Garza</a> for telling me to use WordPress for my first website</li>



<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-t-olson/">Dan Olson</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/hithisisjason/">Jason McClintock</a>, and <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/hiromichi-koga-128b2428/?originalSubdomain=jp">Koga Hiromichi</a> for giving me my first big WordPress gig</li>



<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-letson-phl/">Amy Letson</a> and <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/kcristiano/">Kevin Cristiano</a> for welcoming me as an organizer for the Philadelphia WordPress Meetup group</li>



<li><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/mauteri/">Mike Auteri</a> and <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/newyorkerlaura/">Laura Bryne</a> for welcoming into the Montclair WordPress Community</li>



<li><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/isvictorious/">Victor Ramirez</a> for co-hosting WP @ REC Philly with me</li>



<li><a href="https://allienimmons.com/">Allie Nimmons</a> and <a href="https://meetmichelle.online/">Michelle Frechette</a> for general awesomeness&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<h2 id="h-moral-of-my-story">Moral of My Story</h2>



<p>Life is a string of transitions, a catapult of change. Whether you’re a recent graduate with no clear path to finding your peace and realizing your passions, or you’re settled into your career with no clear signs of stalling, life will keep throwing new obstacles and opportunities at you. If you tackle them alone, you’ll enjoy the highs alone, with no one to celebrate your successes. You’ll endure the lows alone too, with no one to offer a helping hand and pull you from your pit of self doubt. You will miss out on critical lessons that set you back in both your professional and personal journeys.</p>



<p>Each day, I immerse myself in growth-centered communities so we can learn and succeed together. I am who I am because of who I’ve met, from college friends, to coworkers, to clients. Here’s the story so far: I’ve found my place, my peace, and my passions. This is a tale I couldn’t tell without the communities, mentors, and friends I’ve encountered along the way.</p>



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<h2 id="work-environment" class="kt-adv-heading_c792ee-c4 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">Rachel&#8217;s Work Environment</h2>



<p>We asked Rachel for a view into her development life and this is what she sent! </p>




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			stroke-opacity: 0.81;
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			stroke-width: 1;
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			fill-opacity: 0;
			stroke: #ffffff;
			stroke-opacity: 0;
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		#hotspot-5415 .hotspot-default:hover,
		#hotspot-5415 .hotspot-default:focus,
		#hotspot-5415 .hotspot-default.hotspot-active {
			fill: #ffffff;
			fill-opacity: 0.81;
			outline: none;
			stroke: #ffffff;
			stroke-opacity: 0.81;
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		#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-tooltip,
	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-rrose-content-wrapper {
		background: #ffffff;
		border-color: #ffffff;
		color: #000000;
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	#hotspot-5415 a.leaflet-rrose-close-button {
		color: #000000;
	}

	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-rrose-tip {
		background: #ffffff;
	}

	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-popup-scrolled {
		border-bottom-color: #000000;
		border-top-color: #000000;
	}

	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-tooltip-top:before {
		border-top-color: #ffffff;
	}

	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-tooltip-bottom:before {
		border-bottom-color: #ffffff;
	}
	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-tooltip-left:before {
		border-left-color: #ffffff;
	}
	#hotspot-5415 .leaflet-tooltip-right:before {
		border-right-color: #ffffff;
	}



	<div class="hotspots-container  layout-lightbox event-click" id="hotspot-5415">
		<div class="hotspots-interaction">
			<div class="hotspots-image-container">
	<img width="2560" height="1920" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/my-desk-scaled-scrubbed.jpg" alt="Rachel Winchester" class="hotspots-image skip-lazy" usemap="https://heropress.com/feed/#hotspots-image-5415" />
</div>		</div>
		<map name="hotspots-image-5415" class="hotspots-map">
											<area shape="polygon" coords="1171,627,2158,636,2182,654,2125,1277,2103,1294,1697,1251,1721,1271,1753,1281,1786,1292,1771,1410,1404,1360,1469,1245,1519,1249,1523,1227,1171,1199,1149,1186" href="https://heropress.com/feed/#hotspot-hotspot-5415-0" title="HP W2082a 20-inch LED Backlit Monitor" alt="HP W2082a 20-inch LED Backlit Monitor" target="" class="more-info-area" />
											<area shape="polygon" coords="321,854,1053,829,1088,1257,1212,1477,295,1618,353,1334" href="https://heropress.com/feed/#hotspot-hotspot-5415-1" title="Lenovo Yoga" alt="Lenovo Yoga" target="" class="more-info-area" />
											<area shape="polygon" coords="292,398,538,382,576,404,592,454,632,486,680,834,304,844,254,506,294,468" href="https://heropress.com/feed/#hotspot-hotspot-5415-2" title="Guitars!" alt="Guitars!" target="" class="more-info-area" />
											<area shape="polygon" coords="2558,4,2380,928,2422,958,2420,984,2396,970,2355,1104,2374,1262,2554,1304" href="https://heropress.com/feed/#hotspot-hotspot-5415-3" title="Philadelphia!" alt="Philadelphia!" target="" class="more-info-area" />
											<area shape="polygon" coords="2200,905,2249,905,2292,909,2333,921,2379,933,2401,952,2348,1108,2397,1420,2393,1444,2517,1494,2522,1506,2514,1521,2368,1629,2347,1633,2325,1633,1988,1493,1976,1480,1977,1468,2151,1377,2174,1373,2194,1380,2251,1401,2265,1373,2255,1264,2166,1239,2102,1204,2107,1190,2127,1191,2212,939,2196,923" href="https://heropress.com/feed/#hotspot-hotspot-5415-4" title="AboveTEK Phone Stand" alt="AboveTEK Phone Stand" target="" class="more-info-area" />
					</map>

		
					
						<div class="hotspot-info" id="hotspot-hotspot-5415-0">
				
				<h2 class="hotspot-title">HP W2082a 20-inch LED Backlit Monitor</h2>								<div class="hotspot-content">
					<p>My monitor used as a second, rather than a mirror.  I only wish it were touchscreen also.</p>
<p><a href="https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-pavilion-20-inch-displays/7274714/model/7846273/manuals">Link</a></p>
				</div>
			</div>
					
						<div class="hotspot-info" id="hotspot-hotspot-5415-1">
				
				<h2 class="hotspot-title">Lenovo Yoga</h2>								<div class="hotspot-content">
					<p><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-poiln3 r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">I love my laptop because it's touch screen, and it can convert into a tablet. To me, Touch screen navigation is a better experience than using a mouse. But my monitor isn't touch screen lol.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/yoga/">Link</a></p>
				</div>
			</div>
					
						<div class="hotspot-info" id="hotspot-hotspot-5415-2">
				
				<h2 class="hotspot-title">Guitars!</h2>								<div class="hotspot-content">
					<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-1habvwh r-1wbh5a2">
<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-k200y r-gu4em3 r-6t5ypu r-1roi411 r-1fuqb1j r-deolkf r-dnmrzs r-1ny4l3l r-ymttw5 r-1f1sjgu r-o7ynqc r-6416eg">
<div class="css-901oao r-jwli3a r-37j5jr r-a023e6 r-16dba41 r-rjixqe r-bcqeeo r-1udh08x r-bnwqim r-fdjqy7 r-1rozpwm r-qvutc0" dir="auto">
<p><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-poiln3 r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">I have two next to my desk. One is an Ibanez semi hollow, and the other is an ESP explorer. </span><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-poiln3 r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">I just play for myself sometimes. </span></p>
<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-1habvwh r-1wbh5a2">
<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-k200y r-gu4em3 r-6t5ypu r-1roi411 r-1fuqb1j r-deolkf r-dnmrzs r-1ny4l3l r-ymttw5 r-1f1sjgu r-o7ynqc r-6416eg">
<div class="css-901oao r-jwli3a r-37j5jr r-a023e6 r-16dba41 r-rjixqe r-bcqeeo r-1udh08x r-bnwqim r-fdjqy7 r-1rozpwm r-qvutc0" dir="auto"><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-poiln3 r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">The Ibanez is great for jazz rock and blues. The ESP is for metal.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
				</div>
			</div>
					
						<div class="hotspot-info" id="hotspot-hotspot-5415-3">
				
				<h2 class="hotspot-title">Philadelphia!</h2>								<div class="hotspot-content">
									</div>
			</div>
					
						<div class="hotspot-info" id="hotspot-hotspot-5415-4">
				
				<h2 class="hotspot-title">AboveTEK Phone Stand</h2>								<div class="hotspot-content">
					<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-1habvwh r-1wbh5a2">
<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-k200y r-gu4em3 r-6t5ypu r-1roi411 r-1fuqb1j r-deolkf r-dnmrzs r-1ny4l3l r-ymttw5 r-1f1sjgu r-o7ynqc r-6416eg">
<div class="css-901oao r-jwli3a r-37j5jr r-a023e6 r-16dba41 r-rjixqe r-bcqeeo r-1udh08x r-bnwqim r-fdjqy7 r-1rozpwm r-qvutc0" dir="auto"><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-poiln3 r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">I keep my phone in the stand most of the day so i don't use it too often. It becomes apart of my workspace just like the monitor.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"></div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-1habvwh r-1wbh5a2">
<div class="css-1dbjc4n r-k200y r-gu4em3 r-6t5ypu r-1roi411 r-1fuqb1j r-deolkf r-dnmrzs r-1ny4l3l r-ymttw5 r-1f1sjgu r-o7ynqc r-6416eg">
<div class="css-901oao r-jwli3a r-37j5jr r-a023e6 r-16dba41 r-rjixqe r-bcqeeo r-1udh08x r-bnwqim r-fdjqy7 r-1rozpwm r-qvutc0" dir="auto"><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-poiln3 r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">If i keep it in my pocket or laying around somewhere else, I'll take it out too often just to check it. But when it's docked, I don't pick it up as often.</span></div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"></div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/AboveTEK-Business-Aluminum-Professional-Showroom/dp/B07KJLBG8G/ref=sxin_16_ci_mcx_mi_sr_m_il?content-id=amzn1.sym.628beb02-7a42-4f70-8d1a-a780fab5eff1%3Aamzn1.sym.628beb02-7a42-4f70-8d1a-a780fab5eff1&crid=2RQ43EHTZGR0Y&cv_ct_cx=abovetek+phone&keywords=abovetek+phone&pd_rd_i=B07KJLBG8G&pd_rd_r=6e909905-882d-49e3-b5c7-9c753158d3ce&pd_rd_w=PF4tT&pd_rd_wg=Zi305&pf_rd_p=628beb02-7a42-4f70-8d1a-a780fab5eff1&pf_rd_r=BC482B9CJ32Q1J7VR935&qid=1678723787&s=electronics&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=abovetek+phone%2Celectronics%2C84&sr=1-3-9eb59ba4-cd99-4f87-9222-b322340b23c8">Link</a></div>
</div>
</div>
				</div>
			</div>
			</div>





<p class="kt-adv-heading_b9c76c-f5 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading has-theme-palette-9-background-color has-background">HeroPress would like to thank <a href="https://wpdrawattention.com/">Draw Attention</a> for their donation of the plugin to make this interactive image!</p>
</div></div>

</div></div>






<p class="has-small-font-size">Header image <a href="https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/">CCO</a> licensed <a href="https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/61862d3612/">photo</a> by <a href="https://wordpress.org/photos/author/newyorkerlaura/">Laura Byrne</a> from the <a href="https://wordpress.org/photos/">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</p>

<p>The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://heropress.com/essays/everybody-is-a-node-connecting-and-growing/">Everybody is a Node: Connecting and Growing</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://heropress.com">HeroPress</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:17:"Rachel Winchester";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:61:"WPTavern: Gutenberg 15.3 Adds New “Time to Read” Block ";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142655";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-15-3-adds-new-time-to-read-block";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1721:"<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/13/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-3-13-march/">Gutenberg 15.3</a> was released this week with a new &#8220;Time to Read&#8221; block that calculates the estimated reading time for the post or page using the same method that appears in the details panel. The block displays this information on the frontend wherever it is inserted. </p>



<img />



<p>This is the first iteration of the Time to Read block, so it isn&#8217;t very customizable yet. Although users can add custom CSS to the block, it only includes alignment controls right now. The block needs Typography controls and more options for customizing its appearance to be consistent with other core blocks.</p>



<p>In 15.3 Duotone filters have been <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/48318">reworked</a> in several ways to make them more portable across themes. Previously, duotone settings were stored as an array of colors. This has been changed so that duotone presets are stored as slugs, making the color swatches available when a user changes themes. </p>



<p>Another change for Duotone filters in this release is the ability to set them globally inside the Site Editor&#8217;s Styles panel. </p>



<p>The Site Editor also received several improvements to make the design more clear and consistent, updating the designs for the edit button and the add template modal, and cleaning up the template details popover, among other small changes.</p>



<p>Check out the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/13/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-3-13-march/">15.3 changelog</a> for the full rundown of all the enhancements, bug fixes, and accessibility and performance improvements.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:10:04 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:68:"WPTavern: WordPress 6.2 RC 2 Drops Navigation Panel from Site Editor";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142699";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:79:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-2-rc-2-drops-navigation-panel-from-site-editor";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2828:"<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-2/">WordPress 6.2 RC 2</a> was released today on schedule. The new Navigation section in the Site Editor was <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/14/fyi-navigation-section-of-new-site-editor-experienced-removed-for-6-2-rc-2/">dropped from the upcoming release</a> in a somewhat unusual turn of events this late in the release cycle. The feature will remain in the Gutenberg plugin and will be iterated on for a future core release. Users will still be able to manage their menus within the block settings of the Navigation block. </p>



<p>The Navigation section was added in Gutenberg 15.1, the last release to be rolled into 6.2, and the one with the least amount of time to be tested.</p>



<p>&#8220;After being added and as the beta cycle continued, various bugs and refinements started adding up,&#8221; Editor Triage Co-Lead Anne McCarthy said. &#8220;In particular, the top pain points revolved around which menu appears (and how to change it), needing a better description of what this newer section did, and improving the general experience of adding links from that section.&#8221;</p>



<p>McCarthy published a video showing what has been removed: </p>







<p>The conversation leading to this decision was spread across many PRs, issues, and Slack conversations, so it became difficult to track. McCarthy cited a dozen of the related issues and PR&#8217;s, including page links being buried in the inserter, confusion around which menu is pulled into the panel, and many other loose ends that do not provide a good experience for users.</p>



<p> &#8220;Even with trying to lock the experience further down, bugs continued to pop up and the experience isn’t polished enough to move forward with,&#8221; she said. &#8220;This led to a decision amongst Core Editor Tech, Core Editor Triage, and the Design lead ahead of WordPress 6.2 RC 2 to remove that was then <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C04JZ199XPG/p1678728808778249">shared with the wider release squad</a>.&#8221;</p>



<p>The <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/49043">PR to remove the feature</a> was merged 13 hours ago and now the navigation panel will only be visible if using the Gutenberg plugin. Anyone who is creating documentation or educational resources for WordPress should be aware that those related to the navigation panel may need to be udpated.</p>



<p>WordPress 6.2 is now just two weeks away from being released on March 28, 2023. <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/">Testing</a> and <a href="https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev">translation</a> are still needed to ensure the official release will be ready for the world of WordPress users.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:58:08 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 2";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=14640";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:69:"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-2/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4643:"<p>Here it is: the second release candidate (RC2) for WordPress 6.2 is ready! </p>



<p>WordPress 6.2 is scheduled for release on March 28, 2023—which is only two weeks away. Now is your perfect opportunity if you haven’t tried it out yet. Your feedback and help filing bug reports are what keep the WordPress experience stable, smooth, and delightful. It’s important work and a great way to contribute to the project.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Thanks to everyone who tested the Beta and RC releases so far. Since RC1 was released on March 9, there have been about 36 issues resolved in <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=accepted&status=closed&changetime=03%2F07%2F2023..03%2F13%2F2023&milestone=6.2&col=id&col=summary&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id">Trac</a> and <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.2">GitHub</a>.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Catch up on the featured highlights, and dig into more 6.2 details, in the <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/">WordPress 6.2 RC1 release announcement</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">How to install RC2 for testing</h2>



<p><strong>This version of the WordPress software is under development. </strong>Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, it is recommended that you test RC2 on a test server and site.&nbsp;</p>



<p>You can test WordPress 6.2 RC2 in three ways:</p>



<p><strong>Option 1</strong>: Install and activate the <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin (select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</p>



<p><strong>Option 2</strong>: Direct download the <a href="https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.2-RC2.zip">RC2 version (zip)</a>.</p>



<p><strong>Option 3</strong>: Use the following WP-CLI command:</p>



<p><code>wp core update --version=6.2-RC2</code></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">A shoutout to plugin and theme developers</h2>



<p>Your products are the reason WordPress does so many more things for more people across the world. As you test your latest versions against RC2, make sure you update the “<em>Tested up to”</em> version in your plugin’s readme file to 6.2. If you find compatibility problems, please post detailed information to the <a href="https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/">support forums</a>.</p>



<p>Check out the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/">WordPress 6.2 Field Guide</a> for more details about the major changes in this release.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Help translate WordPress</h2>



<p>Do you speak a language other than English? <a href="https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev">Help translate WordPress into more than 100 languages.</a>&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Join the bug hunt—test, test, test</h2>



<p>Without your testing support, hitting important product milestones would be a much bigger challenge. It’s also a meaningful way to contribute to the project. If you’re new to testing, or it’s been a while, <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/">this detailed guide</a> can help you get started.&nbsp;</p>



<p>If you think you have run into an issue, please report it to the <a href="https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/">Alpha/Beta area</a> in the support forums. If you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report, you can <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket">file one on WordPress Trac</a>. You can also check your issue against a list of <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major">known bugs</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Release the haiku</h2>



<p>Listen, we are close<br />One step to final RC<br />Breathe, and keep going</p>



<p><em>Thank you to the following contributors for collaborating on this post: <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>laurlittle</a> <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>marybaum</a> <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>audrasjb</a> <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>cbringmann</a></em></p>



<p><em>Haiku by <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/sereedmedia/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>sereedmedia</a></em></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:59:33 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:16:"Jonathan Pantani";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:46:"Post Status: WordPress Website Cost to Develop";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://poststatus.com/?p=6897";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:46:"https://poststatus.com/wordpress-website-cost/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:27121:"<p>Every business needs a website. Not only does it tell your customers what you do, but it gives you credibility. WordPress is the best website option, but what will it set you back? The WordPress website cost to develop question isn’t so cut and dry.</p>



<p>Eventually, you have to talk about cost.</p>



<p>If you’re a consultant, you’ve been asked how much your services cost. And you have to make some decisions:</p>



<ul>
<li>What services am I providing?</li>



<li>How many hours do I think this will take?</li>



<li>How much is this worth to the client from a business perspective?</li>



<li>Does the client have money? How about a business plan?</li>



<li>Should I charge hourly or by the project?</li>



<li>Is this a one-off thing, or is there potential for a long-term relationship?</li>



<li>How busy am I? Do I need this job? Do I want it?</li>
</ul>



<p>These questions are important. The answers are critical. Gauging the client is vital. Every interaction with the client helps you learn more about them and the project and affects the cost.</p>



<p>Cost often also depends on the market and location. For the purpose of this post, we’re assuming we’re talking to an American audience in U.S. dollars.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 id="develop">How Much Should a Custom WordPress Website Cost to Develop?</h2>



<p>Brian has built websites or been part of website projects — all on WordPress — ranging in cost from less than $1,000 to more than $100,000 for complete websites.</p>



<p>So, in short: It always depends.</p>



<p>This differentiation is why we can’t ballpark it for you. It’s essential to build out an estimate specific to your project.</p>



<h2 id="contents">Table of Contents</h2>



<p>WordPress Website Cost to Develop</p>



<ul>
<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#develop">How Much Should a Custom WordPress Website Cost to Develop?</a></li>



<li>Table of Contents</li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#costs">Types of Websites and their Costs</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#intodevelopment">Understanding What Goes into Development</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#cost">Factors Affecting Website Development Cost</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#businesses">Considerations for Small Businesses</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#website">Estimating the Cost to Develop a Website</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#timeline">Estimate Cost and Timeline</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#views">Pricing Views</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#content">Pricing Content</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#time">Pricing Time</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#factors">Pricing Site Factors</a></li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#freelancerdevelopment">Working with a Freelancer for Website Development</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#agencydevelopment">Working with an Agency for Website Development</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#rates">Comparing Freelancer vs. Agency Rates</a></li>



<li><a href="https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#started">How to Get Your Website Development Started</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 id="costs">Types of Websites and their Costs</h2>



<p>There are many types of websites, each with its potential costs. Brian ranks sites in complexity like this:</p>



<ul>
<li><strong>Simple Blog.</strong> Archives and single post views only. A pretty typical layout.</li>



<li><strong>Complex Blog.</strong> A bunch of “out of the box” styles for various templates. It requires attention to detail on archives, single posts, and other stuff like post formats.</li>



<li><strong>Brochure Site.</strong> Fairly standard but custom home page design and page layout. Stock archive/blog setup with little to no customizations.</li>



<li><strong>Marketing Site</strong>. A mashup between a simple brochure and a complicated blog. It requires more designs, and the home page might be a little more advanced than the simple brochure.</li>



<li><strong>E-Commerce Site.</strong> It could be a mix of any of the websites above plus all the needs in e-commerce (like cart/account/checkout views and tons of configuration considerations). This type of project is often a huge PM bump as well.</li>



<li><strong>Small Business Site.</strong> Similar to a marketing site, but often includes a couple of custom content types that require design and code, like events, testimonials, services, etc.</li>



<li><strong>Large Company Site.</strong> Big business websites are like regular business websites, but more. They often have many custom content types, advanced searching needs, tons of content, and some fancy user permissions needs. And, of course, potentially much more.</li>



<li><strong>Non-Profit or Advocacy Site.</strong> Non-profit and advocacy sites are the holy grail of wanting everything on a budget. These are difficult to keep in scope because they often have the exact needs of big businesses without the budgets.</li>



<li><strong>Large Scale Site. </strong>You can take any of these types of websites and then say you need it to handle millions of page views per month without breaking a sweat. A whole new layer of complexity comes into play.</li>
</ul>



<p>The hours it takes to build these different websites can vary tremendously. It depends on the consultant’s experience, whether they’ve done similar work before, how many “gotchas” appear in the project, how particular the client is about any given feature, and more.</p>



<h2 id="intodevelopment">Understanding What Goes into Development</h2>



<p>Not all websites are created equal, so not all websites will take the same time and work to create. Here are some factors to consider related to the website development process.</p>



<h3>Static vs. Dynamic Websites</h3>



<p>Static websites are the easiest types of sites to maintain and build. They’re faster for users because they require little back-end processing, and the server only retrieves the requested files. Static sites make it challenging to execute a site-wide change because they require you to update each HTML file.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Dynamic sites display different information to each visitor. The visitor’s location, time zone, personal preferences, and habits determine the content. This feature creates a more tailored and interactive experience. Instead of building one page that stays the same, web servers build these personalized pages when users request pages. Dynamic sites build these pages on server-side scripting languages like PHP, Python, or Ruby.</p>



<p>Depending on which type of site you need, you may have to work with different developers. Some common types of development include:</p>



<ul>
<li><strong>Front-End Development.</strong> The practice of producing CSS, HTML, or JavaScript for a website that the user sees and interacts with directly.</li>



<li><strong>Back-End Development.</strong> Working with server-side software to make sure the site is functioning correctly. Backend development focuses on databases, architecture, and servers.</li>



<li><strong>Database Development.</strong> The type of development that focuses on design, programming, construction, and implementation of new databases and modifying existing databases.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<h2 id="cost">Factors Affecting Website Development Cost</h2>



<p>Each website project is unique, and the factors surrounding each project help determine the website cost to develop.&nbsp;</p>



<h3>Factors that affect every project:</h3>



<ul>
<li><strong>Level of Complexity.</strong> More pages take more time and money to build. Plus, parent and child pages can complicate the process.</li>



<li><strong>Design Requirements. </strong>Some websites need special features and customization. The more design requirements for a specific project, the more it will cost.</li>



<li><strong>Platforms and Technologies. </strong>If the project requires the developer to integrate technologies into the website, it adds to the time and cost to build. While many technologies make integrations easy with API keys, not all companies can quickly provide that to their web designer.</li>



<li><strong>Functionality. </strong>Plugins can be relatively inexpensive, but setting them and ensuring they work well together can take a lot of time.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Security.</strong> You can add different levels of security to websites. The costs can be a one-time fee or ongoing. For any e-commerce site, continuous security monitoring is crucial.</li>



<li><strong>Maintenance and Updates.</strong> The developer will need to add new components to sites, and regular maintenance ensures everything functions probably and is consistently updated.</li>
</ul>



<h2 id="businesses">Considerations for Small Businesses</h2>



<p>If you’re a small business owner needing a website, there are some unique factors to consider before you approach a developer.</p>



<h3>Factors that affect small business projects:</h3>



<ul>
<li><strong>Budget. </strong>Knowing the limitations of your budget is crucial. This knowledge will help you choose the best web developer for you while also giving you realistic expectations about the type of website you’ll receive.</li>



<li><strong>Timeline. </strong>The more complex a website is, the longer it takes to develop. Plus, if you have a lot of old website content that needs to be accounted for, it can add development time.</li>



<li><strong>Outsourcing.</strong> When you create a website in-house, you have more control of the process and final product. But when you outsource, you don’t have to worry about paying full-time salary and benefits to the developer or tying up team members with the project.</li>
</ul>



<h2 id="website">Estimating the Cost to Develop a Website</h2>



<p>An estimate takes time. Whether that time is in a paid discovery or a sunk cost the consultant takes on themselves is a different matter. Either way, estimates are expensive because they’re time-consuming. And if a consultant spends a week on an estimate or proposal, they’ll put that cost into the proposal somewhere.</p>



<h3 id="timeline">Estimate Cost and Timeline&nbsp;</h3>



<p>There are some broad brush typical price ranges we can establish for you. Let’s start by segmenting based on who you’re working with. Basically, working with a freelancer will generally be cheaper than working with an agency. Agencies have more overhead, padding built in, concern about cash flow, and generally just tend to be a bit more expensive.</p>



<p>If you work with an agency, the risk of them falling off the map is generally lower, but they move slower too. And you’ll often have to deal with changing contacts as the project progresses (from sales to design to development to maintenance).</p>



<p>If you work with a freelancer, your risks are a bit higher that they’ll disappear someday. It means vetting them is even more important than with an agency. But they also tend to move quickly and don’t juggle as many projects simultaneously. You also benefit from working with (typically) one person who knows everything about your project, and you don’t feel like you’re constantly getting bounced around between people.</p>



<p>It’s possible to have a great relationship with a freelancer or agency. Which route is better typically depends on the client’s mentality and requirements.</p>



<h3 id="views">Pricing Views&nbsp;</h3>



<p>It’s generally good to estimate how many unique views a website has to consider how much it will cost.</p>



<h4>Unique views are:</h4>



<ul>
<li>The home page</li>



<li>The archive page — although it could be category, search, and more, combined in one unique view</li>



<li>The blog “post” page</li>



<li>The generic “page” template, though it can be mashed with the post view</li>



<li>Custom page templates — like fancy about us pages or a key landing page</li>



<li>Custom post types — sometimes in the traditional archive/singular sense and other times the way it sits within another view, like how an FAQ content type may fit into a regular page</li>



<li>Variable sidebars within sections of the website</li>
</ul>



<p>Unique views aren’t always evident. Depending on how discovery conversations go with the client, you can figure out more necessary unique views.</p>



<p>What’s essential about unique views is that they’re excellent for estimating design time, and they can help guide estimating development time.</p>



<p>If a unique view requires a comp (design preview for the client), then that’s a relatively set number of required hours for design. If it doesn’t require a comp, it’s still best to build in time for the designer to do a quality check after it’s developed, so they can make sure it looks good.</p>



<p>Designing a unique view from the ground up could take a designer between four and 10 hours, depending on the complexity. For certain complex or innovative views, that number could hit upward of 20 hours just for design.</p>



<p>Also, design requires a base set of hours to establish the overall tone of the website and to design things rarely considered with unique views, like the header, footer, and overall style guide. The website&#8217;s base elements and style guide could easily range between 10 and 100 hours. It’s a ridiculous range, but it&#8217;s necessary.</p>



<p>So, we’ve established a framework for pricing the design of unique views. Developing them is a different story.</p>



<p>You must carefully consider development. Generally, every design hour should get a development hour to go with it. But development hours can easily break that rule, especially when developing something complex.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Development hours can be <em>literally anything</em> for wholly custom functionality, which is entirely outside this post&#8217;s scope. Development can cost millions of dollars.</p>



<h3 id="content">Pricing Content&nbsp;</h3>



<p>With WordPress, you can add as many posts and pages as you want. But the more posts or pages the client’s existing website has (and expects to transfer to the new site), the more complex the new project will be.</p>



<h4>Some levels to consider when pricing content:</h4>



<ul>
<li><strong>Less than 10 pages </strong>&#8211;<strong> </strong>No big deal</li>



<li><strong>More than 30 pages</strong> &#8211; Start thinking about structure</li>



<li><strong>Hierarchical pages (lots of parent &gt; child page relationships)</strong> &#8211; Require strategic thinking time</li>



<li><strong>Hundreds of pages</strong> &#8211; Either a problem or a lot of strategy and design consideration</li>



<li><strong>Thousands of blog posts, taxonomies (category/tag handling), and searches</strong> &#8211; Probably cost more</li>



<li><strong>A lot of content</strong> &#8211; Navigation needs to be uniquely priced&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Multi-author blog</strong> &#8211; Needs special consideration</li>



<li><strong>Pages or posts need editorial workflow (section management, change or publishing approval, etc.)</strong> &#8211; Need special consideration</li>



<li><strong>Current CMS isn’t WordPress &#8211; </strong>Migration requires special language and details to make it happen</li>



<li><strong>Current CMS is WordPress</strong> &#8211; Understand plugins or custom code potentially creating shortcodes or weird content handling (maybe with custom fields) or what other bad practices may be present</li>
</ul>



<h3 id="time">Pricing Time</h3>



<p>Time is a huge factor to consider when building a website. Developers need to charge for the time a project will take to complete.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Both freelancers and agencies factor time into their pricing. So the time spent researching a project, bidding on it, and meeting with the clients is built into the pricing structure. It’s not just the cost of the time spent working on WordPress website development, though that is the bulk of the cost.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 id="factors">Pricing Site Factors&nbsp;</h3>



<p>Every website development project is different, and the goals of each website owner vary as well. The developer must consider each specification when determining the website&#8217;s cost.</p>



<p>Additionally, the client is a huge factor in price. In short, if a client is going to be difficult, it affects the client multiplier on the overall project cost.</p>



<h4>Client qualities that end up costing money are when the client:</h4>



<ul>
<li>Doesn’t have a single point of contact (multiple people always have to be looped into communication)</li>



<li>Has to get some form of committee approval</li>



<li>Isn’t decisive or is incapable of playing the “consultant advocate” role well internally</li>



<li>Has a lot of red tape for decision making</li>



<li>Payment schedules are awful (payment may take months)</li>



<li>Is prone to huge email threads about small issues</li>



<li>Wants daily or frequent phone calls or meetings</li>



<li>Doesn’t have a clear business plan and will require a lot of advising</li>
</ul>



<p>These are mostly people and organizational things. They have little to do with the actual project.</p>



<p>Let’s say the work for a project will be about $20,000. Add in these client qualities that could get costly from a project management perspective and apply them to the overall cost.</p>



<p>In a $20,000 project, it’s not uncommon for $5,000 of that to be project management costs. If there are enough concerns to warrant 50% higher PM costs, the project gets a $2,500, or 12.5%, increase in overall project cost.</p>



<p>Looking for client qualities that trigger higher costs is vital as a consultant. For potential clients, remember that your qualities (organizational and behavioral) affect your consultant’s price.</p>



<h2 id="freelancerdevelopment">Working with a Freelancer for Website Development&nbsp;</h2>



<p>Freelancers can be an affordable option for website development, but not everyone enjoys working with them, and they aren&#8217;t the right fit for every project.</p>



<h3>Pros and Cons of Freelancers</h3>



<p>Working with freelancers can be good if you have a quick turnaround time. Unlike agencies, freelancers tend to work on one project at a time, so they can focus on your website until it’s finished. You’ll also only communicate with the freelancer during the project, unlike with agencies where you may speak to different departments in various project stages.&nbsp;</p>



<p>But freelancers don’t always have the same schedule availability since they’re a smaller business operation. So, if you need updates in the future, it may take a long time to get on the freelancer’s schedule.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Also, many freelancers work alone, leading to a more unstructured process, which means you may not know the project&#8217;s stage. The freelancer you work with will also likely be acting as their own project manager, so you won’t necessarily get as many updates or information about the project&#8217;s status while they’re working.</p>



<h3>When a Freelancer is a Good Fit&nbsp;</h3>



<p>In general, freelancers are great for jobs that fit the following criteria:</p>



<ul>
<li>Are small enough for one person to handle&nbsp;</li>



<li>Have a tight timeline, and you want them to start quickly</li>



<li>Are fine with informal communication channels&nbsp;</li>



<li>Don&#8217;t need big contractor agreements, insurance, or other common big-business requirements</li>
</ul>



<h2 id="agencydevelopment">Working with an Agency for Website Development&nbsp;</h2>



<p>Agencies are a more established alternative to working with freelancers. They tend to have greater resources and an established process.</p>



<h3>Pros and Cons of Agencies&nbsp;</h3>



<p>Working with agencies can be good for a lot of reasons. Because they specialize in what you’re paying for, you have the potential to build a long-term relationship with them and will be able to come back to them for future projects. You’ll also have a project or client manager to usher you through the process and explain what’s going on with your website. Plus, agencies have dedicated processes, so you know nothing will be left out or forgotten.</p>



<p>But there are still limitations to working with agencies. They work with a large number of clients, so that means you may have a waiting period before they begin your project. It can also lead to a slower project turnaround time.&nbsp;</p>



<p>As your project progresses, you’ll have different points of contact for the various stages.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Working with an agency also can be expensive since they have more overhead costs.</p>



<h3>When an Agency is a Good Fit&nbsp;</h3>



<p>In general, agencies are better when you:</p>



<ul>
<li>Don’t want to risk your consultant disappearing</li>



<li>Are comfortable with a project structure you don’t define and following their process</li>



<li>Can handle a multi-month project that takes two to six months</li>



<li>Don’t mind waiting 30 to 90 days to start until you can fit into their schedule&nbsp;</li>



<li>Want a dedicated project manager</li>



<li>Have a large-scope or fast-turnaround project that requires multiple people working full-time on it</li>
</ul>



<h2 id="rates">Comparing Freelancer vs. Agency Rates</h2>



<p>For most projects, the consultant has to estimate the time it will take them to build and charge <em>at least</em> that. So the consultant probably isn’t charging much more than their cost.</p>



<p>Whether the consultant is an agency or a freelancer, the developer only spends about half their day on the project. Also, that number is probably higher for your average web worker in an agency. It still works as an average because managers and PMs typically won’t hit 50%, and their time may not even factor into direct costs.</p>



<p>Assume the freelancer is billing an end client, not subcontracting to an agency where their costs decrease considerably due to less PM and consistent work.</p>



<p>Finally, utilize these hourly rates as if it’s for billable work and known costs. So, if the rate is $100 per hour and the design will take 50 hours and the development will take 50 hours, and you build in 25 hours for project management, it would be 125 hours, and the project would cost $12,500. Profits, overhead, and everything else are built into the internal hourly rate — just like if someone were billing the client hourly for the work.</p>



<h3>Understanding Special Cases&nbsp;</h3>



<p>Freelancers and agencies also break their own rules all the time. A great example is when you get an inquiry from a big brand. If it’s a competitive bid, and a consultant wants that brand as a featured client, they could easily drop their rates by a third or more to get it — hoping that that brand will make other folks want to work with them down the road.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Sometimes this is effective. Other times it’s a terrible idea. Referrals can come from anywhere, and generally, bending your rates for a brand name is a bad idea, even though it&#8217;s tempting.</p>



<p>Other times, consultants break their own rules or don’t follow their internal rates. Consultants may charge less if it’s a client they work with repeatedly and know the true costs better. Consultants may charge less for non-profit organizations, with a retainer, if work is slow or if they get emotionally invested in the bid. The list of ways to break the guidelines goes on and on.</p>



<h3>Common Freelancer Rates</h3>



<p>Freelance WordPress website developers today make $30 to $175 an hour, with the average developer charging $70 an hour. Freelancers with good experience, who are more in demand, and those with reputations as specialists charge more for their services.</p>



<h3>Common Agency Rates</h3>



<p>WordPress website development agencies charge anywhere from $3,000 to $75,000 or more to build a website, depending on your needs, their reputation, and the size of the market they serve. The better their reputation and the bigger, more high-profile projects they’ve completed in the past, the more they can charge. They also can charge more if they have a niche expertise.</p>



<p>Market size is the difference between working in big towns or small cities (small market), cities that are thriving but not huge (medium market), or the type of city that’s got pro sports teams and more than a million people (large market). The bigger the market, the more an agency can charge. Agencies in mega markets, like New York and San Francisco, can charge much more.</p>



<h2 id="started">How to Get Your Website Development Started</h2>



<p>Before you contact a web developer to build your website, there are some things to do to prepare. This list will help you be more intentional about your web development project and ensure you get what you need.</p>



<ul>
<li><strong>Assess Any Current Site Failings.</strong> What do you wish your site could do that it doesn’t? Are there any functions you absolutely need to add?</li>



<li><strong>Identify Your Goals.</strong> Know what you want from a new site. This direction will help your developer build a better site for you.</li>



<li><strong>Create a Comprehensive List of Needs. </strong>This list will help your developer create a website that works best for your business and help you determine what’s most important during the web development process.</li>



<li><strong>Determine Your Budget.</strong> Knowing how much money you have to work with will help you choose a developer and understand what features you can afford.</li>



<li><strong>Research Freelancers or Agencies. </strong>Think about your timeline and how you’d like the project to proceed. Find a developer that will work well with you.</li>



<li><strong>Track Progress and Stay Connected.</strong> Know where your website is in the development stages. This tracking will help you stay on top of the project.</li>
</ul>



<h2>Do You Want to Learn More About WordPress Development?</h2>



<p>Are you a WordPress pro or someone who works with WordPress pros? If so, you’ll want to connect with a greater WordPress community to learn from and share with. Where else can you talk in-depth about how much a WordPress website costs to develop? <a href="https://poststatus.com/#choose-membership">Join Post Status</a> today and get access to members-only content and tons of WordPress news.</p>
<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:30:32 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:15:"Brian Krogsgard";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:65:"Do The Woo Community: Emerging Web Tech with Brad, Kathy and Dave";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=74622";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"https://dothewoo.io/emerging-web-tech-with-brad-kathy-and-dave/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:419:"<p>An introduction to our upcoming series with Brad Williams, Kathy Zant and Dave Lockie of new web technologies and WooCommerce/WordPress.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel="nofollow" href="https://dothewoo.io/emerging-web-tech-with-brad-kathy-and-dave/">Emerging Web Tech with Brad, Kathy and Dave</a> appeared first on <a rel="nofollow" href="https://dothewoo.io">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 14 Mar 2023 10:38:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:89:"WPTavern: Patchstack Tracks 328% More Security Bugs Reported in WordPress Plugins in 2022";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142666";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:99:"https://wptavern.com/patchstack-tracks-328-more-security-bugs-reported-in-wordpress-plugins-in-2022";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4618:"<p>Patchstack, a WordPress security maintenance and management tool, has published its &#8220;<a href="https://patchstack.com/whitepaper/wordpress-security-stats-2022/">State of WordPress Security</a>&#8221; whitepaper for 2022, tracking a few key metrics on publicly reported vulnerabilities. </p>



<p>The findings highlight the risk of using unmaintained themes and plugins along with developers&#8217; need to keep pace with updates to libraries and dependencies included in their work. Patchstack is tracking a significant increase in vulnerabilities reported in 2022:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote">
<p>In 2022 we saw&nbsp;<strong>328% more security bugs reported</strong>&nbsp;in WordPress plugins – we added&nbsp;<strong>4,528</strong>&nbsp;confirmed security bugs to our database, compared to&nbsp;<strong>1,382 in 2021</strong>.</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Similar to previous years, the majority of these security bugs were found in plugins (93%), followed by themes (6.7%), and WordPress core (0.6%).</p>



<p>These numbers were sourced from public data from Patchstack and other security companies and researchers in the WordPress ecosystem. The total number of vulnerabilities comes from the three official CNAs in the WordPress space that are authorized to assign CVE IDs to new security vulnerabilities and to whom researchers report issues. These include Patchstack, Automattic (WPscan) and WordFence. Patchstack CEO Oliver Sild said some of the vulnerabilities were also independently published elsewhere or reported directly to MITRE.</p>



<p>The report emphasized that the increase in the number of vulnerabilities reported means that ecosystem is becoming more secure as the result of more security issues being found and patched.</p>



<p>Another small improvement over last year is the percentage of critical security bugs that never received a patch. In 2022, that number was 26% versus 29% in 2021. Critical vulnerabilities were better addressed this year but Sild said so far it&#8217;s not a significant change that they would connect with any trend yet.</p>



<p>&#8220;We still think it shows a big problem, which is that some plugins are unsupported or abandoned and do not receive timely patches,&#8221; he said.</p>



<p>Solving the problem of developers abandoning their work is challenging, and many users have no idea how to select plugins that are more likely to be supported. </p>



<p>&#8220;I think it’s important to be transparent,&#8221; Sild said. &#8220;It is also okay that projects come to an end. I just recently told my colleague that &#8216;when someone builds a new plugin, they should keep in mind that someone might actually use it.&#8217; It kind of stuck with me, because even if the plugin developer has moved on and is not working on the project anymore, there still might be people who rely on it.&#8221;</p>



<p>Sild said users often get left in the dark because WordPress core only shows if an update is available. If a plugin gets closed by WordPress.org due to an unpatched security issue, users don&#8217;t get notified.</p>



<p>&#8220;It’s something we try to improve together with our partners such as other security plugins and hosting companies,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Communication is key. We recently also created a free service for plugin developers called &#8216;managed vulnerability disclosure program&#8217; shortly mVDP.  The goal is to help plugin developers adopt more mature security practices and show users that they take security seriously.&#8221;</p>



<p>Other notable insights from the whitepaper include a breakdown of WordPress security bugs by severity. In 2022, the majority of vulnerabilities (84%) were classified as Medium severity, with a smaller percentage of High severity (11%) and Critical (2%).</p>



<img />



<p>Of the most popular plugins (over 1 million installs) that had security issues, only five contained high severity bugs. The two with the highest CVSS score vulnerabilities were Elementor and Essential Add-ons for Elementor, followed by UpdraftPlus WordPress Backup, One Click Demo Import, and MonsterInsights.</p>



<p>The whitepaper highlights a few other trends, including hosting companies alerting their customers to vulnerabilities, the growth of the security research community, and increased security awareness within the WordPress ecosystem. For more details on the state of WordPress security in 2022 and predictions for this year, check out the <a href="https://patchstack.com/whitepaper/wordpress-security-stats-2022/">whitepaper</a> on Patchstack&#8217;s website.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 14 Mar 2023 01:09:14 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:62:"WPTavern: Automattic Acquires ActivityPub Plugin for WordPress";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=142658";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:73:"https://wptavern.com/automattic-acquires-activitypub-plugin-for-wordpress";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4255:"<img />



<p>Automattic has acquired the <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/">ActivityPub plugin</a> for WordPress from German developer <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/pfefferle/">Matthias Pfefferle</a>, who will be joining the company to continue improving support for federated platforms. Pfefferle, who is also the author of the <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/">Webmention</a> plugin, said his new role is to see how Automattic&#8217;s products can benefit from open protocols like ActivityPub.</p>



<p>In 2021, Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg indicated that he would be interested in <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/21/tumblr-to-add-support-for-activitypub-the-social-protocol-powering-mastodon-and-other-apps/">having Tumblr support the ActivityPub protocol</a> for a greater level of interoperability across networks like Mastodon and others using the same protocol. That is still in the works, but WordPress sites already have this capability through the plugin.</p>



<p>&#8220;ActivityPub and a lot of other Open Web Plugins (like the Webmention plugin) were spare time projects, so I was not looking for an acquisition,&#8221; Pfefferle said.</p>



<p>&#8220;When Matt announced that Tumblr wants to implement ActivityPub on Twitter, I asked why not WordPress, so I came in contact with Automattic and they offered me the opportunity to work full time on the plugin and other Open Web projects.&#8221;</p>



<p>The ActivityPub plugin makes it possible for readers to follow a WordPress  site in the fediverse using the ActivityPub protocol. This includes Mastodon, one of the most popular platforms using the protocol, and other platforms like <a href="https://pleroma.social/">Pleroma</a>, <a href="https://friendi.ca/">Friendica</a>, <a href="https://hubzilla.org/">HubZilla</a>, <a href="https://pixelfed.org/">Pixelfed</a>, <a href="https://socialhome.network/">SocialHome</a>, and <a href="https://join.misskey.page/">Misskey</a>. For those using Mastodon, this plugin will automatically send posts to the network and replies to it will become comments on the post.</p>



<p>Last March, the ActivityPub plugin had just 700 users. Today it has grown to more than 2,000 active installs. Although it is not yet widely used, it has gotten more exposure since Elon Musk bought Twitter.</p>



<p>&#8220;Thanks to Elon Musk, the number of downloads from my ActivityPub (WordPress) plugin and <a href="https://mastodon.social/@pfefferle">my followers on Mastodon</a> have increased at least tenfold!&#8221; Pfefferle said in a post on his blog in January 2023. &#8220;This inspired me to work more actively on the plugin again and some great changes came about.&#8221;</p>



<p>Most recently, Pfefferle added a new onboarding screen with recommended plugins, added the published date to author profiles, and added outgoing mentions, among other features.</p>



<img />



<p>Pfefferle said he thinks the idea of the acquisition is not to have the protocol merged into core, but to &#8220;guarantee that it will stay open source and to maybe make it a canonical plugin.&#8221;</p>



<p>As more social networks unite on open protocols, it won&#8217;t matter where you choose to create your home on the web. Interoperability between apps allows people to post from whatever network they enjoy, creating a richer, more diverse web. Automattic&#8217;s support of the ActivityPub plugin ensures WordPress&#8217; place in the fediverse, where blogs will not isolated islands but rather interconnected as many were in the early days of blogging. Pfefferle&#8217;s work embodies these ideals.</p>



<p>&#8220;I think my drive was always to build an alternative to the big walled gardens of Facebook &amp; co,&#8221; Pfefferle said.</p>



<p>&#8220;I fell in love with the idea of blogging and the spirit of the Web 2.0 movement and tried to keep the idea alive. I worked on several WordPress plugins and participated in several movements (<a href="https://github.com/diso/">DiSo</a>, <a href="http://dataportability.org/">DataPortability</a> and others) starting in 2007.</p>



<p>&#8220;It is so exciting to finally see such a big interest in Open and Federated technologies!&#8221;</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:24:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Sarah Gooding";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s:4:"type";i:128;s:7:"headers";O:42:"Requests_Utility_CaseInsensitiveDictionary":1:{s:7:"*data";a:8:{s:6:"server";s:5:"nginx";s:4:"date";s:29:"Tue, 04 Apr 2023 20:58:03 GMT";s:12:"content-type";s:8:"text/xml";s:13:"last-modified";s:29:"Tue, 04 Apr 2023 20:45:28 GMT";s:4:"vary";s:15:"Accept-Encoding";s:15:"x-frame-options";s:10:"SAMEORIGIN";s:16:"content-encoding";s:2:"br";s:4:"x-nc";s:9:"HIT ord 2";}}s:5:"build";s:14:"20220425113828";}